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Modpack Discussion
Moderated by Crazed Ewok, Gen_Rhys_Dallows

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Topic Subject: My Thoughts On Expanding Fronts (I figured this post was big enough to be it's own topic)
posted 09-27-16 09:48 PM EDT (US)   

[This message has been edited by Alino (edited 05-11-2020 @ 01:24 AM).]

posted 09-27-16 10:12 PM EDT (US)     1 / 6  
This is not big enough to be its own topic. The main thread exists for a reason, your post won't get lost, and I'd rather not have this forum flooded with topics about the same thing.
I don't quite understand why there is so much effort going into the scenario editor instead of the actual civs and balancing between them.
One does not preclude the other. Just because we haven't said anything about it yet doesn't mean that nothing is happening.
Why is there so much work going into other things when the Zann Consortium isn't even finished? Like seriously, all they need to be their own truly unique civ is their own worker.
As I said when you asked before, we cannot give them a new worker, or infantry, or heroes, if there's nobody around that can actually build them. Character modeling and animation is not easy, especially for something that requires as much detail as the Worker. Comparatively, tossing in some new walls, crates, and rocks is no problem at all, and is well within the capabilities of the team. I'd very much appreciate if people did not try to tell us what we should be doing without understanding what it actually takes to accomplish those things.
Why not just polish it and release it as "Expanding Fronts: Release 1.0"
We did. Six months ago.

I can look in the EF thread, or on Facebook, or ModDB and find a thousand things that people want from us. The First Order, the Resistance, Mandalorians, Zann workers, turret boats, deployable Repeater Troops, combat engineers, functional trenches, authentic stats for every unit, new Confederacy buildings, an HD Steam remake, smarter AI, cover systems, new terrains, accurately-scaled units, a new soundtrack, restored subfactions, trainable heroes, Soviet tanks from Red Alert, more triggers, stealth-detecting droids, widescreen, every starship, character, planet, and blade of grass you can find on Wookieepedia; the list'll never end. What do we start with? The things that you want? What about the things that Matt, or Keno, or Rustin Haase, or any of the other people I can name from all of these sites have asked for? How much of it is even possible to begin with?

It might look like it to the people playing, but this isn't magic. We have to choose what to focus on, and for now, we have decided that improving the Scenario Editor is the most efficient thing to do with the personnel and resources available to us. Once our work there is deemed sufficient, we will move on to whatever we feel is important next, be that extensive rebalancing, or adding a tenth civ, or turning every graphic in the game pink.

"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
Expanding Fronts Mod

[This message has been edited by Gen_Rhys_Dallows (edited 09-28-2016 @ 03:51 AM).]

posted 09-28-16 03:57 AM EDT (US)     2 / 6  
I do agree with Dallows on everything he said. This topic is more of a complaint thread it seems than an actual useful topic with little substance as to what it could do to contribute to Expanding Front's ongoing project. BTW, The mod isn't really done. It's being updated with every new patch to improve upon the performance and the functionality of the whole package itself, Alino. Like StarCraft: Brood War, Blizzard Entertainment has been publishing patches for that game for probably well over a decade and FYI, they are still doing it to this day even. We even had a new one not too long ago... Seriously, it's in the StarEdit forums right here.

Similarly, there was, not a lot, but some limitations as to what the Scenario Editor can do. Essentially, EF has expanded upon the Editor's functionalities to make up for those shortcomings. Enough about that, what I am trying to say is, this topic is apparently based on pure conjecture without much insight as to how the project is moving forward and I do agree with what Dallows is saying at this point.

Also, I didn't want much really. I just want the AI malfunction in the modpack to be fixed, but I didn't get an update on it, so who knows.

[This message has been edited by Captain Keno (edited 09-28-2016 @ 04:02 AM).]

posted 09-28-16 05:21 AM EDT (US)     3 / 6  
Look, I'm not really involved with the Zann stuff at all. Should I just stop making new editor 'crap' and do nothing? Good luck convincing me to slave away at attempting to make a Zann worker. I hadn't even heard of Zann until Dallows told me about EF. Would you like to put me in charge of re-balancing the game? I promise you will like that even less.

I remind you that we're just a team of people doing things in our spare time. You should be happy to get anything at all for this 15 year old game. The next update is mostly editor themed, yes, but there's some other things going on as well. I mentioned before that Zann will get it's very own new Bounty Hunter. Also, some of the other guys have recently been attempting to get the AI in order. Stay tuned.

@)₪₪₪₪ ŤΣVŮS ₪₪₪₪(@
|| OŢ .◊ ŤΡМ ◊. SLX ||
|| ŘĿŦŔ .◊ ŦŚŤĮ ◊. ĶǾŤ ||

[This message has been edited by Tevious (edited 09-28-2016 @ 05:25 AM).]

posted 09-28-16 02:04 PM EDT (US)     4 / 6  
Wait, this game is 15 years old!? Damn, I didn't know that.

[This message has been edited by Captain Keno (edited 09-28-2016 @ 02:05 PM).]

posted 09-28-16 04:04 PM EDT (US)     5 / 6  
The main problem with EF at the moment is, as Dallows says, finding animators for infantry and complicated moving characters. I laid this out a little while ago to someone else: creating a single infantry unit is a ton of work. Each infantry unit has five different animations: idle, move, attack, die and decay. Each of these animations has several frames associated with it, usually about 8 I believe. Each animation has to be done in five different directions: north, north-east, east, south-east, south (north-east, east and south-east are cloned for north-west, west and south-west respectively). That's a lot of frames, and the process has to be repeated for every single infantry unit that needs to be added with additional issues: shadows, projectiles, properly centering all the units, etc.

Workers are even worse, because they have far more animations: building, carbon collecting, farming, fishing, etc. And if that weren't bad enough, they don't just need those animations for the one action, they need them to apply to all the other animations. When a farmer is moved off a farm, he still has all his farming gear in hand. Same with a miner. Or a fisherman. So we need idle animations, movement animations, die animations and decay animations for every single action that a worker can do. It's a LOT of work, and not a case of simply adding one in.

Thank you for your contribution - I hope you understand why the EF Mod is facing issues. I would also ask you to bear in mind that the people involved in this mod are not doing it full time: they all have jobs and other commitments, so while helpful criticism and advice is welcome the team won't be able to do everything the community asks at the drop of a hat.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.

Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
posted 09-28-16 05:37 PM EDT (US)     6 / 6  
And now I think this is when the thread closes.
SWGB Heaven » Forums » Modpack Discussion » My Thoughts On Expanding Fronts (I figured this post was big enough to be it's own topic)
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