So here it is, the final and definitive version of my Republic senate. This is the last version I'll be making, any updates will be for bug fixing and whatnot, but either from that this is the last and definitive version. So enjoy!
|Clone Campaigns required?:
||Role Playing Strategy
|Number of players:
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About 330 new triggers plus 200 edited triggers to recreate the game's central engine make a powerful 903 triggers engine ready to roll.
More space was added.
Civilization based planet assignment: Based on what civilization you choose you will be assigned a planet as an alternative way to choose a planet.
Dynamic Shared Function Triggering (DSFT): Is the new form of triggering I have come up with to make triggers dinamicly share their tasks so trigger creation work can be saved, using this new form of triggering I have saved myself from making up to 300 triggers in what would have been a 1200 trigger game. For 903 triggers you get the same result by letting triggers share and correlate their functions.
Its important that you read the read me file before playing to understand how this new senate system works in which I fuse my Civilization Based Senate with Dragon mac's Classic Planet Choosing Senate Model.
There's more that I would like to have done with this final version, but I have touched the cutting edge of this scenario's capabilities, so many of the ideas I had for this final version were not met.
Although it doesn't look dramatically changed on the outside, its on the inside, under the hood were mayor work has been done, and trust me, the gameplay will change radically from V2.8 to this version.
The reason I created this system instead of adapting mys enate for a classic Dragon mac model is because it would have taken the deletion of 90% of the existing triggers to redo it from scratch, I prefered to keep my Civilization based system and fuse it to a degree with dragon's classic model, which in result creates a totally new senate experience.
You may not edit this scenario under any circumstance, more on that in the read me file.
Any further updates will be done to fix bugs that get found by either myself or other players. If you detect a bug, contact me via e-mail, whcih can be found inside the read me file.
Several bugs have been fixed thanks to playtest by people like Peanutbutterjelly, Midnight King Mario, Gold Leader, Darth Reven, FearmedearforIamdeath (even though he now hates me), Lord Edward, and whoever else I forgot to mention, thank you to all of you for your support and your effort to help me find serious fatal bugs in this scenario, which thanks to you have now been fixed.
Also I have left a little present to all of you, the beta version of my next scenario which you can pick up and play in multiplayer since it has already functional trigger work.
Even more bugs have been found and fixed, as well as more room was added in the flag area, thanks to PBJ for finding and noticing for the bug.
Civilization for IG-88 has been changed to Trade Federation by request instead of Republic.
The forcefield system for the planets has been deleted and replaced with a new more intelligent and sabotage proof system. 50 triggers have been deleted and 80 mor have been added resulting into 919 total triggers. The holocron delivery system has been adapted with a failsafe device for player who are lurking to cheat with the system.
Bugs have been fixed and the new planet buying system is now up and running like it should.
THIS SCENARIO IS NOT MADE, DISTRIBUTED, OR SUPORTED BY LUCASARTS ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LLC. ELEMENTS tm & (c) LUCASARTS ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LLC AND ITS LICENSORS' ".
|Author||Reviews ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )|
|Fear Me Dear
The gameplay was excellent as usual with no known bugs in the final version. As always when I look at this map I'm in awe and even more so when I look at the triggerwork. The RPG was nice but that could take away from the senate aspect since people will more than likely just want to overthrow the senate via it. I'm not going to complain about the forcefields since they really don't bother you and you know whare they are. I'm not sure if there are but when I hosted an older version of this there were no senate dialogue triggers to tell when a meeting was and all that..and checking through this I still didn't find any and on top of that finding the triggers and you can use is a bitch and I generally end up just using an air transport to get to them. The arena was really good as usual. I liked that there were random events related to the hacking in the RPG such as the Krayt Dragons. The bounty hunter job is interesting. I never knew about it til I playtested it and got to play as them. It's a good concept but as PBJ said most BH end their careers early as I did..
Blance would have been perfect but there were super units, even if they were the hosts, which would have been fine if they were just stardestroyers but there were tie x1s too. The planets were nicely balanced as well and there really was no planet that was "better" than the others. They were all pretty even just laid out differently.
Well it's a senate, but the killer execution and inovative triggers bounce it up to a five even though the senate concept has been around since 1999. Plus smashing an RPG into it took balls and was nicely done.
Map Design: 5
What can I say but wow. You would have to see the map to know what I mean. But there are faults. It's a very beautiful map but it's a little too busy for me, I like to be organized and I got lost too much. The planets are just a tad cramped, but at least it's with beauty and not crap. I would add more detail but I would end up describing the whole map as it is all equally astounding.
Excellent. They are just like the senate in the way that they are very well done. Nothing else to say about it.
Additional Comments: I guess we're back on speaking terms if you want it but things won't be the same. For future reference: Lukeskywalker64 is a little 12 year old that NO ONE likes. I wasn't so mad that you were following the rules it was just that the rules shouldn't be enforced for him because He never finishes a game anyways and we might as well have fun with him while he's there. But this is a great senate and thank you for the beta.
[Edited on 07/04/11 @ 03:29 AM]
Great! not perfect, play as the Bh is a wonderful experience, i allways chosse the empire to be bobba, my hero, but the host dont get too fun, you should make more "buttons" to make the host play whit the players
totaly great, even for a senate
is not the most creative idea, still on the basics but the "the planet chosser by civ" was something that even i couldnt imagine
Map Design: 4
Great exept for the big eye candy on couscant, really you should add some space for rooms and stuff.
i didnt read it too much, but they explain enough
im very evil >=D but it was a fair review. like simon cowell (Aka: darth simon) on american idol.
Seacker has now updated his scenario due to certain complications and complaints about previous versions. It now boasts over 900 triggers as seacker never gets tired of reminding me... so I'd better take a look and see if it's any better than before.
Playability: 4 (used to be 4, changed to 5 after update)
This was a very difficult area to grade concerning the planet selection system. The primary difference between this and seacker's other maps is that seacker has finally given players the choice as to what planet they get. This would naturally raise his score for playability. However, seacker's idea for giving players more choice is as such:
Each player starts out with a troop center, and is instructed to build a Mounted Trooper and bring it to a specific flag. This initiates them as a player. If players don't get their mounted trooper to the flag within "exactly 200 seconds", their troop centers all disappear and they are "booted" from the game.
Seacker once referred to this map as "noob-free" since the noobs won't listen to the instructions in the beginning and they won't build a mounted trooper and they won't get their planet. By the way, the planet selection is determined by the player's civilization. So if anyone has the same civ as somebody else, they'll be booted.
Trade Federation and Empire players are the bounty hunters. The good news is that now the bounty hunter player can upgrade ANY unit at their base at the cost of nova; instead of just Boba Fett or that tin man guy. This means that if they bite the dust, (which can happen in countless ways in this map, more on that later) the host can give them a spare Jango Fett or standard bounty hunter as a replacement. The bad news is that Jango Fett is the ONLY bounty hunter unit the host can build at kamino. The others include a few random jedi master heros and that's pretty much it...
Remember in dragon mac senate when the host could give people just about ANY hero unit? In this one there's just 4. So if you want to roleplay with heros I hope you like mace windu and jango fett and count dracula because that's just about all you're going to get.
One of the most frustrating aspects of this map and the previous ones is that seacker has implemented his infamous "force fields" for all the unowned planets. Anything that goes near a planet still up for sale dies, no exceptions. Seacker's reason for this is because people in his previous senate had a tendency to accidentally fly over unbought planets and acquire all the units on them whether they've payed or not.
This new system has solved the problem of accidentally acquiring planets, but it's still a major mistake to make such a precarious template. 90% of the times I've played this map, somebody has accidentally sent their huge army of units over an unbought planet, lost everything and quit out of discouragement. Bounty hunters often accidentally loose their single unit that they probably spent all their nova to upgrade when flying over an unbought planet. (or the security core area, which works the same way)
What if each unbought planet belonged to the host to begin with, and was sold to the players using a trigger? That's just one suggestion. Either way, I'm convinced that there are ways of preventing people from acquiring planets for free without having to severely sabotage the map's playability.
Remember how I complained in seacker's previous map about the holocron delivery system being annoying and hard to operate? This system is basically the same, only it involves garrisoning AGENCY_SEACKER (Jango Fett unit) in and out of a turret with the planet name on top. At least you're trying seacker; not exactly what I had in mind but at least you're trying. ;)
The best thing about this system is it means some of the more sneaky players can garrison their own units in the turret; thereby "hacking" the holocron system and sending themselves and other people holocrons for free. (I sure hope that host doesn't go AFK!) The same goes for the bantha delivery system.
This is an area where seacker's senate is pretty good, but not at all perfect. The primary balance problem is that the host is juuuuuust barely overpowered. Not anywhere near as tough as the hosts in most senates, but still not entirely "beatable" as seacker argues.
For one thing the host gets to build an infinite number of "Tie Advanced 1X Vader" fighters whenever he wants... To his credit, seacker set the trigger up with a killable unit; so players can "disable" his fighter spawning. That's all very good and well, but what if the host builds a heapin ton of fighters before anyone else even gets to tech 3?
In addition, the host possesses some random super air units scattered around Coruscant so that an unfamiliar host will have no idea where they are. As far as I know, there are 2 super tie fighters and 2 super lambada shuttles with enough firepower to kill just about anything with 1 or 2 shots. The 4 of them combined are pretty much invinsible... especially if the host already has an army of respawning Tie fighters to assist them.
Lastly, I believe the host is also capable of super-powering any unit it chooses at the arena... so there is always the option of super units for the host.
The balance of this senate isn't too bad, but unless the host is significantly incompetent (which is quite possible), he will NOT loose to a player. I'm not sure how to score that, because in a lot of ways that's how senate is supposed to be. The game is as balanced as the host makes it. I just think that those super units are a little too effective at annihilating a player's base before that player can do anything to stop them.
A seperate balance problem is that the bounty hunter system still kinda sucks. It's not a bad idea to have a couple players who control specific hero units instead of building a base. The idea appears to be that players or the host can "hire" boba fett or the tin man to fight for them. The only problem is that boba fett and the tin man are only effective until everybody reaches tech level 3. All a player needs is a single fighter and the bounty hunter is pretty much screwed, since he has no air units.
Now, seacker DID implement a system where the bounty hunter gets all the units he needs; including a worker and some air units. Great! But the bounty hunter player needs to kill a certain number of enemy units before he can get those "privileges". (more like vitalities) So the bounty hunter better hurry up and destroy somebodies units... and they better have 70 units to spoonfeed... and those better be trooper recruits because anyting else might be too dangerous.
Another solution is for the bounty hunter to sit there, bored out of his skull, shooting kryat dragons from the arena. One glitch seacker consistantly seems to have, and has apparently given up on trying to fix, is that the animals from the arena never attack. They just sit there. I can't really offer a solution for this one, since trying different difficulty settings hasn't worked.
70% of the time, people who play as the bounty end up asking for a worker. The host, if he's not seacker, then gives the player a worker and they complain about having no space to build. The host, if he's not seacker, then gives the player a real planet to build on. When this happens repeatedly, I think seacker should stop blaming the players and give the bounty hunters a better deal. There's no way they can effectively serve their purpose in the map with all these loopholes.
This map was pretty creative, I guess. Seacker has some "never before scene" ways of running senate. I must admit I've never seen the assigning planets to civilizations. Some of the planets have their own little quirks. Or rather, the rebel planet, yavin 4, has a bridge that the player can retract at will. The trigger barely works and doesn't serve any real purpose but... at least it's creative!
I guess I'm a bit of a party pooper when it comes to seacker's new ideas because I feel like they tend to cause unnecessary problems. The civilization - planet selection and the forcefields are prime examples. They solve 1 problem and create a bunch of other problems.
Despite that, I DO think it's an improvement.
Map Design: 5
Looks good like before.
My own personal taste says that stalagmites mixed with cliffs on geonosis looks like crap defying gravity and oozing up cliff face. I'm hopefully the only one who sees that. 3D eye candy doesn't really work in my opinion but... other than that it all looks great!
We've been through the "not enough space" issue many times, and it's clear that seacker still wants his cliffs and eye candy. He's made a little more space now and I was able to basically get by this time. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the "no room" problem if there were more planets to buy and they had plenty of room themselves. It's annoying though when you have to squish everything you build into every nook and cranny to avoid seacker's famed "eye candy".
The map design isn't perfect, but it's about as good as seacker is ever going to let it get.
Fortunately, seacker has finally come to his senses and taken the time to EXPLAIN some of the map's more awkward aspects - including the general location of each one. This is all it takes to get a good score for info.
It's a definite improvement. I wouldn't call it "final", but I'd say seacker has made himself a pretty good map. It has problems that drive some players away, but a lot of people like it. So I might as well join in on the fun. Most senate maps end up feeling boring and pointless to me after a while, which is why I'm not exactly a die-hard senate fan. However my general quest for efficiency drives me to review these maps in hopes that I can give an idea of the improvements they could use.
Seacker at least took steps to make his maps unique. He took many risks and I'd say the end result is quite good. I just wish there were a way to get people who ONLY play dragon mac senate due to it's general efficiency to try something new and stick with it.
People like seacker and fearmedearforiamdeath (can I please just call you bob?) are at least trying to bring new ideas to the table, which is just what senate maps need at this point.
Seacker has updated his map and insisted that I update this review. The map is exactly the same EXCEPT that players can now choose their buyable planets by taking a unit to the planet and garrisoning it inside a turret on that planet. All the units on the planet then transfer to the player. However, workers CANNOT land on unbought planets. Therefor players cannot build on planets they don't yet own - which is a GOOD idea.
This also eradicates the need for force fields over planets, boosting his playability score by 1. Because at least NOW people can fly around the map without fear of blowing up. (unless they're over coruscant in which case they have to worry about the security bunker area where they can still blow up) Well done seacker.
[Edited on 08/13/11 @ 11:34 PM]