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SWGB Heaven » Forums » Star Wars Universe » Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS INSIDE)
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Topic Subject:Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS INSIDE)
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Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 12-13-17 01:48 PM EDT (US)         
The Last Jedi is only a couple of days away from release. As such, a new thread has been opened for discussion of the film and surrounding materials, spoilers included. The previous thread opened by Keno is to remain spoiler-free. Violation of this will result in punishment as deemed appropriate by the moderation staff.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
Expanding Fronts Mod
AuthorReplies:
Maegereg
Clone Trooper
posted 12-29-17 10:57 PM EDT (US)     61 / 187       
I just watched the movie a second time yesterday, and noticed that on Canto Bight Rose and Finn are arrested for "parking violation 27b stroke 6." I love this movie.

Maegereg
,,,,,,,,,,Crusader for Commas,,,,,,,,,,
"404 errors scare me too..." -Cadre ][ "We outnumber them. Theoretically, we should win." -RESOME ][ "OD scares me. A lot. I'd sooner drop napalm on it than post on it." -Rotaretilbo
Free Kenan
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 12-29-17 11:55 PM EDT (US)     62 / 187       
Oh, sweet Celestia... you haven't seen it yet? O_O
Nope. I was getting ready for vacation when it entered theaters, and I am still on said vacation. Hopefully I'll manage to get to a theater before I get home. TBH, while I do want to see it, I'm not exactly sitting on pins and needles over it.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 01-02-18 08:58 AM EDT (US)     63 / 187       

Even in Star Wars, they know... Pony όber alles.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-02-18 05:25 PM EDT (US)     64 / 187       
Finally saw it. It had its pros and cons, but on the whole...meh. It wasn't horrible. It wasn't great. Literally the only surprise in the entire film is that the "snow" world was salt.

So, IMO Poe isn't a sexist. He's a moron.

Who wants to take bets that Captain Phasma survives dying to show up for another brief, meaningless scene in Episode IX?

Too little Maz.

I agree with Moff: the snappy writing frequently felt off.

I appreciate that Luke went 75% Kreia. But some of his dialogue felt OOC.

Yoda showing up was 100% fan service. But I accept it.

It was too long. Canto Bite could have been cut from the film without losing anything.

Finn didn't die. But they almost killed Rose.

I just love how the Resistance is apparently thirty people and a six-year-old stable boy with telekinesis. But hey,





On which note, aside from Canto Bite being narratively out of place, the meme nails it when it points out how stupid it made both Rose and Finn look when they're saving the Space Horse and leaving the enslaved children. Well, it's hard to make Finn look much stupider, but it was a stupid moment for Rose, a character I otherwise liked.

Given Carrie Fisher's unfortunate death, I have no idea how they're going to write Leia out of a film that was obviously being set up to focus on her. Even aside from TLJ's middling quality, it quite spoils my appetite for Ep9.

Meanwhile, the whole "kill everything that's old" message was stupid. Yes, yes, much angst, moving on. That said, Driver gave a solid performance. Hux and Snoke were still wastes of space. At least one of them isn't anymore.

I think my biggest gripe though is why must everything still be a super weapon?!?!?!

Also, visually, everything felt...wrong. Hard to explain, but the visuals of TLJ didn't sit right with me. The model designs, the costuming, the cinematography--none of it sat right with me. Also, why was Admiral Holdo dressed like a civilian attending a cocktail party?


TL;DR: I give it 4/10.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Emissary of the Prophets (edited 01-02-2018 @ 05:25 PM).]

Queen Jenny the Mediocre
Clone Trooper
(id: neo222)
posted 01-02-18 06:18 PM EDT (US)     65 / 187       
So, IMO Poe isn't a sexist. He's a moron.
Thank you!

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 01-02-18 06:44 PM EDT (US)     66 / 187       
Sounds like my calling him Poe "Dumbass" Dameron still applies!

Best pilot in the galaxy my ass. If Wedge and Lando are still alive, then he's third best at most.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-02-18 07:07 PM EDT (US)     67 / 187       
Well, the good news for him then is that the good pilots keep dying, first Han and now Luke. I know Lawson declined to return; I'm going to take a wild guess so did Billy Dee Williams, who, to my knowledge, has never been too thrilled about being part of the Star Wars fandom. (Hmm, actually, just looked it up: apparently Williams is interested but was never asked. So...they asked Wedge to return but not Lando? Odd...)

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 01-02-18 08:45 PM EDT (US)     68 / 187       
Supposedly, Lando was going to be in it... probably in the Canto Bight scene. But then, imagine fan outrage if General Calrissian was now an amoral gun salesman making money off the First Order and Resistance? <_<

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-02-18 09:14 PM EDT (US)     69 / 187       
Because he was totally the poster child of ethical business practices in ESB.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 01-02-18 09:53 PM EDT (US)     70 / 187       
And he paid dearly for it, with RotJ being his redemption arc.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-02-18 10:14 PM EDT (US)     71 / 187       
TBH I don't really care if he shows up or not, but I am surprised they never even asked him, when every other minor character (hi, Nien Nunb) shows up. *sigh* I'm in the mood to go play KotOR2 now so I can enjoy Kreia lampshading everything Star Wars does wrong.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
jssf1992
Clone Trooper
posted 01-05-18 02:17 PM EDT (US)     72 / 187       
So, I actually saw it last week, with family. But, being with family, I've been putting off . . . pretty much everything.
Oh, well, here we go.

So, I actually enjoyed it a lot while I was in the theater watching it. Just sitting there in front of it, I had litterally only one problem with it right up until it finished.

I enjoyed all of the returning characters, and all but one of the new ones. Leia's survival was weird, but accepted it for what did as part of the story. Snoke was a little bland, but I didn't expect much of him anyway, and the development for Kylo was well done. Luke being cynical I saw coming, and Hamill did it just as well as he does just about everything. Rey's development was fine, and I did like that she was turned away from 'needing' a parental figure. Poe, Finn, and Rose were okay, but nothing special really.

The one thing I really, really had a problem with was vice-admiral Holdo. I mean, seriously? Not only did we use the "boss who thinks being an authority figure means not listening to anyone" cliche, not only is she part of the a rebbellion, but the movie treats her as right? NO, no,no, NO. That one thing pulls me out of the movie and made start thinking about it.

Finally, as a couple of others here have said, I do think that there should have been some sort of answer to the rebels' call for help, but I do think Luke appearing is a symbolic answer, and so I'm still satisfied.
Luke's last scene in the battle is almost amazing. Having him die is rather anticlimatic and I do wonder why they didn't just have him go physically if they planned for him to die.

I still enjoyed watching the movie despite minor things (and one major). The real problems came afterwards. The more I thought about it, the more this movie, even more than The Force Awakens causes problems for the continuity, both logically and thematically.

Logically, the resources displayed by the First Order make it even harder to believe . . . in any sort of logical progression between the OT and these movies on a macro scale. With these resources, the First is pretty much just the empire in a new coat of paint, which makes the idea of the Alliance military just up and dissapearing more than a little strange.

And I definitely dislike the idea of the New Republic being defeated by Snoke, Kyle, and Hux, who are clearly inferior to Palpatine and Vader.

And of course, it now leaves the biggest problem of the efforts of the original heroes being undone. I don't care if it's 'darker' or more 'tragic'. The victory at Endor was hard earned by the heroes, and they deserved some happiness for it.

I could go into more detail on any of these, but I'ld rather no write a paper about this right off the bat.

Currently listening to: True Will (Tales of Berseria)
Trying to juggle college and far too many creative projects
Currently failing on the latter.
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-05-18 03:21 PM EDT (US)     73 / 187       
So, I actually enjoyed it a lot while I was in the theater watching it. Just sitting there in front of it, I had litterally only one problem with it right up until it finished.
I actually spent most of the movie like this:



The one thing I really, really had a problem with was vice-admiral Holdo. I mean, seriously? Not only did we use the "boss who thinks being an authority figure means not listening to anyone" cliche, not only is she part of the a rebbellion, but the movie treats her as right? NO, no,no, NO. That one thing pulls me out of the movie and made start thinking about it.
I didn't have an issue with her acting like an admiral; I had an issue with her dressing like a socialite. ETA: To clarify, I didn't feel she wasn't listening. She wasn't listening to Poe, an officer who had just been demoted for being a reckless idiot.
Logically, the resources displayed by the First Order make it even harder to believe . . . in any sort of logical progression between the OT and these movies on a macro scale. With these resources, the First is pretty much just the empire in a new coat of paint, which makes the idea of the Alliance military just up and dissapearing more than a little strange.
Yes. It's like the Rebels won, then sat and twiddled their thumbs for forty years. Why are the Rebels weaker than they were in their so-called darkest hour? How did the First Order get so strong? What was the New Republic doing that they apparently didn't notice?
And I definitely dislike the idea of the New Republic being defeated by Snoke, Kyle, and Hux, who are clearly inferior to Palpatine and Vader.
It was hard to tell when all of Snoke's lines were plagiarized straight from Palpy's mouth. But yeah, the First Order had no leadership: it had not-Palpy, a whining child in a mask, and a whining child in a uniform.
And of course, it now leaves the biggest problem of the efforts of the original heroes being undone. I don't care if it's 'darker' or more 'tragic'. The victory at Endor was hard earned by the heroes, and they deserved some happiness for it.
I wouldn't mind that if the execution were better done. As written, it makes Luke and Leia both look massively incompetent, and I don't appreciate that.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Emissary of the Prophets (edited 01-05-2018 @ 03:23 PM).]

Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 01-05-18 04:56 PM EDT (US)     74 / 187       
Yes. It's like the Rebels won, then sat and twiddled their thumbs for forty years.
They did. They embraced an ultra-pacifist notion, which originally entailed totally dismantling the armed forces, but that seems to have been scaled back.

The other reason is because it's explicitly noted that the New Republic fleet was destroyed by Starkiller Base's attack. To use an analogy, the Quarian Heavy Fleet and Liveships are annihilated... leaving just the Light fleet scattered about on anti-piracy and recon patrols. Add to that the part where TLJ takes place roughly twenty minutes after Rey left D'Qar (and her flight and walk up the mountain took about thirty minutes, given the timing of when we pick up with her )... there just hasn't been time for the dust to settle.

Of course, it's still stupid... but it's at least internally consistent!

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-05-18 05:16 PM EDT (US)     75 / 187       
They did. They embraced an ultra-pacifist notion, which originally entailed totally dismantling the armed forces, but that seems to have been scaled back.
Which comes back to my point that Leia and the "heroes of the Rebellion" now look incompetent. Sure, I'm guessing Leia wasn't happy about this given where she was in TFA, but it still doesn't look good for any of them.
Of course, it's still stupid... but it's at least internally consistent!
Yes, but unfortunately internally consistent stupidity is still stupid.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
jssf1992
Clone Trooper
posted 01-05-18 06:28 PM EDT (US)     76 / 187       
I didn't have an issue with her acting like an admiral
A pity she didn't then. No leadership qualities, no respect for her men, and no real show of tactics. Though I suppose that means she qualifies perfectly for being a generic Imperial Admiral.
She wasn't listening to Poe, an officer who had just been demoted for being a reckless idiot.
Except no. To my recollection, Poe was reprimanded for disobeying orders, which Leia points out is because he's reckless (in proper leadership tact as well), but he wasn't releived of command. Meaning he was still in command of their fighters (a pretty big deal to the alliance), and while that's certainly not equal to actual fleet commanders, it doesn't mean that he shouldn't be listened to.

Something bigger, and less reliant on my recollection, is that even if he was demoted, her handling of the situation was terrible. To use rank to competely shut down a sensible request by a lower officer is morally dubious in the first place, but in a rebelion, where one would expect anti-authoritarian personalities everywhere is simply stupid. The mutiny was exactly what any sane person should expect, let alone one with experience.

And of course, let's not forget how terribly thought out her plan was . . .
They did. They embraced an ultra-pacifist notion, which originally entailed totally dismantling the armed forces, but that seems to have been scaled back.
And while that may have flown in TFA, where the First Order seemed to be a small group on the outer rim with a secret weapon, it doesn't in TLJ, where they now have resources (and thus territory) to rival the height of the Empire. This would neccesitate the war with the Empire didn't actually end. Even if an uneasy truce was called, it would have resulted in a Cold War situation instead, so no scaled down military, even if Mon Mothma wanted it (because it's a republic).

Currently listening to: True Will (Tales of Berseria)
Trying to juggle college and far too many creative projects
Currently failing on the latter.
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-05-18 06:43 PM EDT (US)     77 / 187       
Except no. To my recollection, Poe was reprimanded for disobeying orders, which Leia points out is because he's reckless (in proper leadership tact as well), but he wasn't releived of command. Meaning he was still in command of their fighters (a pretty big deal to the alliance), and while that's certainly not equal to actual fleet commanders, it doesn't mean that he shouldn't be listened to.

Something bigger, and less reliant on my recollection, is that even if he was demoted, her handling of the situation was terrible. To use rank to competely shut down a sensible request by a lower officer is morally dubious in the first place, but in a rebelion, where one would expect anti-authoritarian personalities everywhere is simply stupid. The mutiny was exactly what any sane person should expect, let alone one with experience.
Except he wasn't commander of their starfighters; he was now just a lowly captain because Leia slapped him in the face (so that's more professional than Holdo's reaction? ) and told him that he's a moron who gets people killed and then does a happy dance because he won (which is true). Ignoring her civvie clothes, Holdo comes across like a professional; Poe comes across like a raving egotist (which he is).
And while that may have flown in TFA, where the First Order seemed to be a small group on the outer rim with a secret weapon, it doesn't in TLJ, where they now have resources (and thus territory) to rival the height of the Empire. This would neccesitate the war with the Empire didn't actually end. Even if an uneasy truce was called, it would have resulted in a Cold War situation instead, so no scaled down military, even if Mon Mothma wanted it (because it's a republic).
I'm trying to figure out a headcanon here that doesn't make Leia and Mon Mothma both look like incredible fools. But yeah, the worldbuilding in the new trilogy is the worst in Star Wars, and that's already a sad statement.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
jssf1992
Clone Trooper
posted 01-05-18 08:48 PM EDT (US)     78 / 187       
Except he wasn't commander of their starfighters
Sigh
I meant commander as in in command, there was no indication of that changing.
Don't forget that he was also appearantly trusted enough to be involved in Leia's search for Luke in the previous movie.
he was now just a lowly captain because Leia slapped him in the face (so that's more professional than Holdo's reaction? )
I don't recall that happening, but I was refering the fact that Leia actually, you know, gave a sensible reason for the reprimand. While Holdo just shut him down, even while Poe was being reasonable (on top of being incompetent).
Holdo comes across like a professional
If you call pulling rank professional, then you haven't had much experience with authority figures.
Poe comes across like a raving egotist (which he is)
. . . thinking oneself to be in the right when the other party is behaving so . . . immature isn't egotism. He's impulsive and reckless, as pointed out, but there isn't much reason to call him egotistical.

Currently listening to: True Will (Tales of Berseria)
Trying to juggle college and far too many creative projects
Currently failing on the latter.
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 01-05-18 09:13 PM EDT (US)     79 / 187       
He's impulsive and reckless, as pointed out, but there isn't much reason to call him egotistical.
Has he, at any point, called himself the "best damn starfighter pilot in the galaxy?"

Rhetorical question of course. I'm just trying to lighten the mood

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-05-18 09:33 PM EDT (US)     80 / 187       
If you call pulling rank professional, then you haven't had much experience with authority figures.
Plenty, I just don't have an issue with authority figures acting like they're in authority. There's a time and place for Picard-style "let's have a meeting and form a consensus" leadership, but there's also a time and place for a leader to take charge and do what needs to be done. I'm not saying I was impressed by Holdo's tactical skills or actual plan (though to be fair to her, it would have worked had she not been inadvertently betrayed by Poe and Company), but I had no issue with her leadership style.
He's impulsive and reckless, as pointed out, but there isn't much reason to call him egotistical.
I don't know, doing a happy dance over a Pyrrhic victory where three-fourths of your squad died because "Yay! I won" is pretty egotistical. In fact, I'd say Poe is currently the reigning champion of "biggest narcissist in the Star Wars universe."

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
jssf1992
Clone Trooper
posted 01-05-18 10:17 PM EDT (US)     81 / 187       
Plenty, I just don't have an issue with authority figures acting like they're in authority.
Which, in my experience means people only wanting priviledge from a position, with out any responsibility. Which Holdo qualifies as.
There's a time and place for Picard-style "let's have a meeting and form a consensus" leadership
Like when the whole top layer of leadership is gone and we have no plan?
but there's also a time and place for a leader to take charge and do what needs to be done
Which is no excuse to be condescending, disrespect, or LIE.
(though to be fair to her, it would have worked had she not been inadvertently betrayed by Poe and Company)
1. She doesn't really do anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt.
2. Um, that would have happened anyway. The slicer may have sped up the process, but if the personnel of the First Order fleet were any sort of competent (which, they may not be, but when talking strategy one should assume) they would have had eyes, sensors, etc. watching for anything unusual happening with the enemy ship. And we know they could have found the transports because they did just that to verify the story.

But Holdo had no plan for this, not even having the ships move in such a way that the capital ship could cover for them. Even when the transports start getting shot at, she just stands and stares for a while before acting, even though it should be an eventuallity that she had planned for.

3. Did you miss that, had they actually gone with Poe's plan, it would have worked? Not for the reason they expected, but it would have? If Holdo had, at the very least, afforded Poe a minimum of respect instead of twisting Leia's words to insult him, they could have actually worked together to make something that would have actually worked correctly?
I don't know, doing a happy dance over a Pyrrhic victory where three-fourths of your squad died because "Yay! I won" is pretty egotistical.
I definitely don't recall any dance. Or anything remotely joyful. He does say that taking out the SSD is a pretty big deal . . . and it kind of is. In terms of the single battle, it was actually a collosal victory, but in terms of what they needed to do at that stage of war, it was a bad move. And he should have been called out for disobeying orders. And yes, I acknowledge that occurence as a time that that kind of unilateral authority should be used.

Currently listening to: True Will (Tales of Berseria)
Trying to juggle college and far too many creative projects
Currently failing on the latter.
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-05-18 10:31 PM EDT (US)     82 / 187       
I didn't have strong opinions on Holdo one way or another. I thought it made her look rather ineffectual when she just sat on the bridge and did nothing while the fleet of transports got obliterated. But like I said, I didn't take issue with her leadership style. As for Poe, I don't see any way he can come out of this movie not looking like a complete moron, especially when he came out of the first movie looking like a glorified extra.
Like when the whole top layer of leadership is gone and we have no plan?
No, I think that counts as a crisis and is exactly the moment to dispense with Picard-style consensus gathering. A fact Picard never seemed to grasp; in fact, Picard seemed to think that a crisis is the perfect time for a long moralizing monologue. Which is probably why Sisko is my favorite captain.
1. She doesn't really do anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Well, we are told she's a hero and a brilliant strategist. Unfortunately, we're only told, which is bad story telling. But it's more than we have to go on with Poe, who in the last movie did absolutely nothing and in this movie did absolutely nothing except get a lot of people killed. So of the two, Holdo is still the one inspiring more confidence.
2. Um, that would have happened anyway. The slicer may have sped up the process, but if the personnel of the First Order fleet were any sort of competent (which, they may not be, but when talking strategy one should assume) they would have had eyes, sensors, etc. watching for anything unusual happening with the enemy ship. And we know they could have found the transports because they did just that to verify the story.
When was the last time you saw a Star Wars villain behave so rationally?
But Holdo had no plan for this, not even having the ships move in such a way that the capital ship could cover for them. Even when the transports start getting shot at, she just stands and stares for a while before acting, even though it should be an eventuallity that she had planned for.
This is where the writing breaks down and one begins to question Holdo's qualifications. But assuming we're supposed to believe that Holdo is competent, that's just bad writing.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Emissary of the Prophets (edited 01-05-2018 @ 10:32 PM).]

Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 01-15-18 08:28 PM EDT (US)     83 / 187       
Does anyone here believe that Snoke is really dead or do you believe as I do that he transferred his consciousness into Kylo Ren?

I believe doing such a thing is a dark side ability.
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 01-15-18 08:54 PM EDT (US)     84 / 187       
Hmm. Possible. But it seems like it would've been hinted at somewhere, so I don't think they'll push that.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-15-18 09:09 PM EDT (US)     85 / 187       
Possible, but I think the writers recognized that Snoke was a boring villain and just got rid of him. Kylo's not exactly the best villain Star Wars has ever seen (Director Orson Krennic is >_> ), but he's better than Darth Gollum not-Palpatine Snoke.

EDIT: But thank you for helping me figure out what game to play next. I've missed Kreia.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Emissary of the Prophets (edited 01-15-2018 @ 09:09 PM).]

ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 01-16-18 04:35 AM EDT (US)     86 / 187       
There's an argument for him not being dead: if he's to be believed, and he was causing the link between Rey and Kylo to be formed, then one might assume he is alive at the end of the film when they make one more connection, after his apparent death. Of course, it's possible that they've learned how to do this themselves by now, or in fact Snoke never had a hand in it and was straight up lying. Hard to say.

I don't see any evidence for him transferring his consciousness to Kylo though, possible or not.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 01-19-18 00:54 AM EDT (US)     87 / 187       
Well, if Snoke did transfer his consciousness into Kylo Ren I would think that he would pretend to actually be Kylo Ren until he decides to reveal otherwise.

I mean if Snoke did transfer his consciousness into Kylo Ren one can say that Kylo Ren himself could've turned back to the light as Rey believed that he would, but the reason that didn't play out as she expected was because Snoke transferred his consciousness into Kylo Ren.

Snoke as Kylo Ren and pretending to be Kylo Ren would likely try to lure Rey to the dark side to become his new apprentice.

The way Kylo Ren reached out to Rey to try to get her to join him is something that I also believe a Snoke possessed Kylo Ren would also try to do, and Snoke could be still trying to do that hence the connection link that Rey and Kylo Ren still shared at the end of the movie.

Rey believing Snoke to be dead would simply believe that the connection happened again by Kylo Ren himself that time rather than Snoke, but all the while it's really Snoke in Kylo Ren's body causing the connection to be established once again as a means to tempt Rey to the dark side due to her desire to turn Kylo Ren back to the light.
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 01-25-18 09:31 PM EDT (US)     88 / 187       
Someone on Facebook asked for a summary of TLJ, so I thought I'd share mine here. I think some people will appreciate it.
Luke Skywalker turns into Kreia and somehow learned wit during his twenty years of isolation. Rey and Emo Ren mind-Skype. The Rebels/Resistance/whatever they're calling themselves these days have horrible organization skills and poor leadership. Poe Dameron spends three hours acting like a moron. Two characters go to a casino so the rich corporate executives funding the film can feel self-righteous about poking fun at rich corporate executives while two heroes feel more compassion for Space Horses than enslaved orphans. Rey's parents are nameless druggies. Emperor Gollum not-Palpatine dies, so now the First Order is as hard pressed for qualified leadership as the Rebels. They land on Salt Hoth where the Resistance is saved by crystal foxes. The next film's probable original trilogy mentor died IRL, seriously complicating Episode IX. Did I miss anything?

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 01-26-18 06:21 AM EDT (US)     89 / 187       
Poe Dameron spends three hours acting like a moron.
Little bit simplistic but I guess that's the point. And yes, he does. I'm pretty much happy with this - we've no reason to believe that he wasn't an arrogant arsehole when it comes to his command based on TFA, and it just so happens that he is. Fancy that.
Luke Skywalker turns into Kreia and somehow learned wit during his twenty years of isolation.
Twenty years? That doesn't sound right. That would mean that Kylo Ren turned to the dark side twenty years ago, and that doesn't seem correct. Could be wrong though...

---------------------------------------------------
Thoughts on the Anything Star Wars Thread
Not to mention making two of the heroes look like heartless fools with the whole, "Aww, let's save the Space Horses and abandon the children" shtick.
Not convinced by that. Saving the horse things was a means to an end - it worked too, the police guys were distracted by the rest of the herd. And I can't say this for sure, but if they got recaptured because they were being slowed down by a handful of children, wouldn't you call them fools then? There's being "heartless fools" and there's being pragmatic and sensible about one's odds - I'm more inclined to believe that the latter applies to Rose and Finn.
With one of the story arcs being utterly redundant (the code breaker).
I'm also a bit surprised that events which advanced the plot are just "redundant". If Poe hadn't hatched his hare-brained plan with Finn and Rose, there's a strong implication that Holdo's plan would have worked and Resistance lives would have been saved - the code breaker plot line is the culmination of that, and leads into the third act. Would you prefer it if the story had just ended with the Resistance getting to Crait safe and sound without being detected? I get the feeling that you wouldn't be happy with that either...

I mean sure, Canto Bight was clunky and a little too long, but redundant? That's harsh. It also opens up the door on that point about people profiting off the war and others just supporting the highest bidder, and although these points weren't dealt with with much nuance, it's the first time a Star Wars film has attempted to do that as far as I recall. So frankly I'm happy that an effort has even been made.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 01-26-18 11:31 AM EDT (US)     90 / 187       
Let's just agree that everything would be better if we could watch Darth Vader do a hallway scene to his emo grandson

Or an ESB if you want to see him pummel the little shit before cutting him down

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
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