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Topic Subject:Star Wars Rebels
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Empire of Darkness
Clone Trooper
(id: Imperial Force)
posted 05-20-13 09:43 AM EDT (US)         
Star Wars Rebels

Interesting turn of events, and quite frankly, I'm glad to see Filoni involved.

Perhaps an older Ahsoka Tano will appear in this series.

I personally hope they try to take a more series tone with the series, but some how the doubt of that eats away more than the Jar Jar Binks episodes of Clone Wars ever could. The Disney ownership is giving us new movies, the partnership with EA will give us new games; the next couple of years will determine whether or not we actually wanted any of it.

Whoa.

[This message has been edited by Empire of Darkness (edited 05-20-2013 @ 09:46 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-25-15 01:24 AM EDT (US)     631 / 1043       
In terms of Ventress... ug, you could be right. Her lightsabre and fighting style does appear to be very different though,
The character has a similar body style to Ventress and new fighting styles can be learned, so it could still end up being Ventress.

Also, Ventress' lightsabres were stolen and she likely had to acquire new ones.
and it's a substantial stretch to have her working for Vader now.
Last we saw Ventress her character was a Bounty Hunter and Bounty Hunters were used quite often by the Empire.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-25-2015 @ 01:24 AM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 05:50 AM EDT (US)     632 / 1043       
Clones were conditioned to be LESS independent.
Not only that, but the first arc of Season 6 basically said Order 66 is a coded thing on some brain implant. The only clones that had said implant removed died before word could get out.

Rex should be a Stormtrooper assigned to Vader as an advisor and bodyguard. Have him turn in situ, perhaps even while encountering Ahsoka... but not in the distant past.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology

[This message has been edited by Moff (edited 04-25-2015 @ 05:54 AM).]

Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-25-15 03:07 PM EDT (US)     633 / 1043       
Due to Palpatine stating in Revenge Of The Sith, "Commander Cody...the time has come. Execute order 66".

I always assumed that the clones knew what Palpatine had planned from the very beginning making it possible for them to refuse the order if they so chose to do so.

The movies themselves really didn't reveal it to be anything else.
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-25-15 06:22 PM EDT (US)     634 / 1043       
Oh my gosh... >_<

Movies don't reveal Ventress or Ahsoka to exist either. Probably one of the few things they've done right.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 06:30 PM EDT (US)     635 / 1043       
...You just made up for missing the quick ME3 match Gryph and I had this afternoon.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-25-15 06:56 PM EDT (US)     636 / 1043       
Didn't even know I was expected

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 06:59 PM EDT (US)     637 / 1043       
Well, missing in the sense of "wish you were there, it was awesome" rather than, "You were late to an appointment."

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-25-15 07:13 PM EDT (US)     638 / 1043       
Oh my gosh... >_<

Movies don't reveal Ventress or Ahsoka to exist either. Probably one of the few things they've done right.
So what?!

They are still part of the Star Wars official canon.

The information about the clones has never been revealed in the official canon of any movie or series. Any information revealed in comics or any other source isn't part of the official Star Wars canon unless otherwise stated as being official therefore it must be rejected.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-25-2015 @ 07:17 PM).]

Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-25-15 07:19 PM EDT (US)     639 / 1043       
...Take it Moff. I'm done. Don't need another warning on my forum record.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 07:21 PM EDT (US)     640 / 1043       
So what if they're official Star Wars canon? So is Jar Jar Binks. So are the Ewoks. Being a part of the official hardly makes something special, infallible, or automatically wonderful. <_<

Happy, FA? >_>


New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-25-15 07:25 PM EDT (US)     641 / 1043       
Not entirely, but you tried

EDIT: And their lowered independence WAS established in the movies. Episode 2 to be exact.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain

[This message has been edited by Flying Ace (edited 04-25-2015 @ 07:26 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 07:35 PM EDT (US)     642 / 1043       
As does the fact that they'll obey any order... but then, TCW did ruin that because children don't want their action figures to go from white knights to Waffen SS in the blink of an eye. <_<

Or the marketing department doesn't. I forget which.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-25-15 07:38 PM EDT (US)     643 / 1043       
Hence the "unaltered clone" business, because that's the origin story we all wanted for Boba Fett.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 07:46 PM EDT (US)     644 / 1043       
Yeah, right? Because, in fact, we needed about three million Boba Fetts. That's what we really wanted!

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-25-15 07:52 PM EDT (US)     645 / 1043       
"That's what happens when you sell the most action figures. Thank you fanboys!"


What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-25-15 08:27 PM EDT (US)     646 / 1043       
Egad, I just realized that TCW's pacifist Mandos which I've tried to purge from my mind is canon!

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 08:58 PM EDT (US)     647 / 1043       
...Eh, still better than Traviss' Infallible War Gods.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-25-15 09:45 PM EDT (US)     648 / 1043       
I think they're about equally bad. Besides, to be fair, someone had to counter the infallible Jedi gods.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 10:19 PM EDT (US)     649 / 1043       
But it wasn't solving the problem... just substituting warrior-philosophers for philosopher-warriors.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-25-15 10:21 PM EDT (US)     650 / 1043       
Basically, whenever anyone is set up as infallible, unless they are in the most literal sense of the term gods, it is problematic for the story.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 10:22 PM EDT (US)     651 / 1043       
...One could argue the Jedi were godlike. But, perhaps Greek, or Egyptian? Or... Klingon?

Omnipotent but not invincible. <_<

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-25-15 10:34 PM EDT (US)     652 / 1043       
Or... Klingon?
Yes, please. The Klingons killed their gods. To quote Worf, "They were more trouble than they were worth."
Egyptian
I don't really think you can kill Egyptian gods, especially since they already dwell in the land of the dead. Yes, there's the instance of Osiris, but you'll note that, unlike Baldr, Isis put him back together again and he just became the god of resurrection.

Greek gods, however, are clearly very killable. Just ask the Titans. Same goes for the Norse gods, with the caveat that you can't kill them until Ragnarok--but all the humans die then too. Considering the Irish gods successively killed and replaced each other, looks like they're mortal too.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-25-15 10:39 PM EDT (US)     653 / 1043       
Mmm. Yeah, wasn't sure about pantheons with killable gods. I wasn't even 100% on the Greeks. Were the Titans actually gods, or just powerful creatures who preceded the gods?

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-25-15 10:52 PM EDT (US)     654 / 1043       
The Titans were the gods of the Golden Age, who had in turn overthrown the previous generations of gods led by Ouranos and Gaia. (The time of the great myth cycles was the Silver Age, and the "present" was the Bronze Age, which only coincidentally is what we call it as well for different reasons...)

I'm not sure I'd read too much into that, though. Some anthropologists believe that every time a pantheon gets overthrown it represents a change in religion. This seems to be the case with the Norse Aesir vs Vanir--but note that the Vanir are still (lesser) gods and three of them (Freyr, Freyja, and I believe Norπr) are still major gods. In the case of the Greeks, I'm lead to doubt this claim for two reasons: 1) Most of the gods have Indo-European cognates (with major exceptions being Poseidon [a Berber god, from what I understand] and Aphrodite [Ashtarte/Asherah/Ishtar/Inanna/Hathor, an Egypto-Sumero-Semitic goddess]) or 2) are adopted indigenous deities (particularly Athena and Hera [who is not cognate with Juno]). If pre-Greek gods got subsumed into the Greek myths, I don't really see a reason to presume that the Titans represent the pre-Greek religion.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-26-15 01:01 AM EDT (US)     655 / 1043       
Being a part of the official hardly makes something special, infallible, or automatically wonderful. <_<
Never said it did, but everything you say is still irrelevant in regards to it still being official canon and there is nothing that anyone can do about it unless such a thing is retconned, and the only things that have been retconned are things that are not official canon anyway.

For example most jedi fates have been revealed in comics and the Clone Wars series definitely changed the fates of a few characters that originally had different fates in the comics such as Ventress and Barriss Offee.

What the Clone Wars series has established is the official canon now for those characters not what it states about them in the comics or other sources unless stated that it is official.

An example of that is the upcoming graphic novel about Ventress coming out this summer. It supposedly was suppose to be a story that was to be made into an episode of the Clone Wars, but it never happened.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-26-2015 @ 01:02 AM).]

Viceroy Billy
Clone Trooper
(id: Billy9)
posted 04-26-15 01:10 AM EDT (US)     656 / 1043       
I love how Shifter was clearly losing the argument, so now he pulls out the non-canon card. You never can win with some people. You're the Hong Xiuquan to GBH'S Qing Dynasty.

Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. Sorry, Ted, that's a dumb question... skip that. - Captain Rex Kramer
This is a vegetarian restaurant only, we serve no animal flesh of any kind. We're not only proud of that, we're smug about it. - Michael Palin
L.A. 15, 7 Adam. 10-5 to Mary 3, I've got a blue van in the RV storage lot, 1600 North Willow. 10-35, 7 Adam is rolling.

[This message has been edited by Viceroy Billy (edited 04-26-2015 @ 01:49 AM).]

Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-26-15 02:17 AM EDT (US)     657 / 1043       
I love how Shifter was clearly losing the argument, so now he pulls out the non-canon card. You never can win with some people. You're the Hong Xiuquan to GBH'S Qing Dynasty.
I'm actually pulling the official canon card not a non-canon card.

So, the reason why I'm clearly NOT losing the argument is because facts are facts and what I'm stating are the facts.

It's been stated time and time again that the official canon are the movies, series, and whatever comics or novels that are stated to be official canon.

Everything else outside of that isn't official canon...it's as simple as that.

You and others might not like that, but that's the way it is.

I no longer consider what's stated in the comics about the characters Ventress and Barriss Offee for example to be official canon when it's obvious that the Clone Wars series altered things from the fates established for those characters in the comics and the official canon is what I stated above with no exceptions because that's the way it is.

New official fates must now be established for those characters.

Whatever happens to Ventress in the upcoming novel about her for example will be official because it has been stated that it was going to be an episode of the Clone Wars series that never got made.

If she dies in it I won't like it, but that will be her fate nevertheless that retcons what happens to her character in the comics and it will be official canon...it's as simple as that and I will have to accept that...and I will.

If I can do such a thing with a character I like then I don't understand why any of you can't do the same thing.

There can be only one true canon for any character and for Star Wars it's already been stated what that canon is.

So...whether any of you like it or not I won this argument before it even began because I'm going by the facts while the rest of you are clearly ignoring them for the sake of your arugment which is totally irrelevant due to the facts.

So, you might as well accept defeat because you're just making fools of yourselves by not doing so. Perhaps not in your own minds because you deny the facts, but in reality the facts are the facts and going by those facts I've won this argument.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-26-2015 @ 02:46 AM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-26-15 07:48 AM EDT (US)     658 / 1043       
Oh dear. I fear our unwillingness to convert has made Shifter 20% madder.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 04-26-15 09:55 AM EDT (US)     659 / 1043       
I totally forgot about the little brain chip that makes the clones execute Order 66. That basically makes it impossible for clones to refuse the order.
Rex should be a Stormtrooper assigned to Vader as an advisor and bodyguard. Have him turn in situ, perhaps even while encountering Ahsoka... but not in the distant past.
I can imagine that happening. And only very occasionally we see just a glimmer of the camaraderie that existed between him and Anakin in the form of a quick quip or playful challenge, before Vader slips back into the grim, dark character he's become. And we can see Rex's face light up ever so slightly at the return of his old friend, but then the moment's gone and it's back to business as usual. I think that would work.
If she dies in it I won't like it, but that will be her fate nevertheless that retcons what happens to her character in the comics and it will be official canon...it's as simple as that and I will have to accept that...and I will.

If I can do such a thing with a character I like then I don't understand why any of you can't do the same thing.
No one said anything like that! The opinion of just about everyone here relating to Rebels is as follows:

If she appears in it I won't like it, but that will be her fate nevertheless that retcons what happens to her character in the comics and it will be official canon...it's as simple as that and I will have to accept that...and I will.

Is that familiar?
Last we saw Ventress her character was a Bounty Hunter and Bounty Hunters were used quite often by the Empire.
Not Sith ones though. That's a rogue element that Palpatine would surely never allow to roam free. So if it is her and she is serving Vader, I think it's very unlikely that she will be serving under contract as a bounty hunter.

I would like to clarify (because this is a constant issue with you Shifter and it's very frustrating) that I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for her to be a bounty hunter, just very unlikely, for the reasons stated above. It might be possible though, regardless of how ridiculous. In fact one might say:

If she appears as a bounty hunter in it I won't like it, but that will be her fate nevertheless that retcons what happens to her character in the comics and it will be official canon...it's as simple as that and I will have to accept that...and I will.
Due to Palpatine stating in Revenge Of The Sith, "Commander Cody...the time has come. Execute order 66".

I always assumed that the clones knew what Palpatine had planned from the very beginning making it possible for them to refuse the order if they so chose to do so.

The movies themselves really didn't reveal it to be anything else.
No, but season 6 of TCW revealed that the order was a trigger for the chips implanted into the clones. The series is canon. Also note that none of the clones knew about the chips, so it's quite clear that they didn't know Palpatine's plan. It's my opinion that Palpatine said that because it was his goal for the clone army - it had always been his plan, but i don't believe that any of the clones knew about it.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Viceroy Billy
Clone Trooper
(id: Billy9)
posted 04-26-15 10:08 AM EDT (US)     660 / 1043       
Oh dear. I fear our unwillingness to convert has made Shifter 20% madder.
Yeah, sorry about that Moff. I fear you're just going to have to clean up the mess later. You know a guy starts losing it when he has to reassure himself multiple times that HE HAS WON. HE HAS WON AND EVERYONE ELSE LOSES DUE TO HIS COMMAND OVER THE FACTS. AND THE FACTS ALL AGREE THAT HIS IS THE TRUE REALITY AND WE ARE ALL LIVING IN DENIAL! EXTERMINATE!

Huh, don't know where the last bit came from. Anyways, I guess I'll go back to ignoring everything Hong Xiuquan here posts and go back to, oh, I don't know, doing my best to create something our community can enjoy together instead of fighting bitterly against it and alienating everyone that wants to talk to you.

Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. Sorry, Ted, that's a dumb question... skip that. - Captain Rex Kramer
This is a vegetarian restaurant only, we serve no animal flesh of any kind. We're not only proud of that, we're smug about it. - Michael Palin
L.A. 15, 7 Adam. 10-5 to Mary 3, I've got a blue van in the RV storage lot, 1600 North Willow. 10-35, 7 Adam is rolling.
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