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Topic Subject:Star Wars Rebels
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Empire of Darkness
Clone Trooper
(id: Imperial Force)
posted 05-20-13 09:43 AM EDT (US)         
Star Wars Rebels

Interesting turn of events, and quite frankly, I'm glad to see Filoni involved.

Perhaps an older Ahsoka Tano will appear in this series.

I personally hope they try to take a more series tone with the series, but some how the doubt of that eats away more than the Jar Jar Binks episodes of Clone Wars ever could. The Disney ownership is giving us new movies, the partnership with EA will give us new games; the next couple of years will determine whether or not we actually wanted any of it.

Trials of a Jedi - Coming Never.

[This message has been edited by Empire of Darkness (edited 05-20-2013 @ 09:46 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-01-15 06:17 PM EDT (US)     571 / 1043       
I'm not a fan of time travel; I'd rather they leave Ventress in the past and introduce new villains.
What's up with the background on the site with the flashing firework crap and pink background...I don't like it.
It's April Fools', which marks the annual return of Epilepsy Elephant. I'm not a fan of it either. >_<

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Zaarin (edited 04-01-2015 @ 06:18 PM).]

Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-01-15 06:38 PM EDT (US)     572 / 1043       
I'm not a fan of time travel; I'd rather they leave Ventress in the past and introduce new villains.
Being placed in suspension isn't time travel.

It would be no different than what happened to Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back only for Ventress more time would pass in her case in order to be in the upcoming movies.
It's April Fools', which marks the annual return of Epilepsy Elephant. I'm not a fan of it either. >_<
Who's idea was it to have something like this, and what can be done to put a stop to it?

If it's not liked then it should be stopped.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-01-2015 @ 06:41 PM).]

John the Late
Jedi Padawan
posted 04-01-15 07:55 PM EDT (US)     573 / 1043       
Wait, Ventress might appear in one of the new films?


No thanks.
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-01-15 08:49 PM EDT (US)     574 / 1043       
If she appears in the ST I'm boycotting them altogether.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-01-15 10:18 PM EDT (US)     575 / 1043       
Being placed in suspension isn't time travel.
Close enough.
Who's idea was it to have something like this, and what can be done to put a stop to it?

If it's not liked then it should be stopped.
It's a tradition, and it's only a day. Besides, it ensures we kill off all our weaker epileptic forummers so only the fittest remain.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-02-15 03:55 AM EDT (US)     576 / 1043       
Close enough.
No it isn't.

Time travel is time travel and being put in suspension is being put in suspension.

One isn't even close to being the other.

A time traveler can alter time itself and change everything. A person that has been put in suspension doesn't alter time he or she is still a part of the same timeline as everyone else.

There is definitely a big difference between the two.
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-02-15 05:59 AM EDT (US)     577 / 1043       
Actually, even moment of existence is time travel... forward. In fact, according to special relatively, it is possible to effectively travel forward in time (from the traveller's perspective) by going very fast.

You just can't go backwards.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-02-15 11:05 AM EDT (US)     578 / 1043       
There is definitely a big difference between the two.
Not from a storytelling perspective. They both result in thirty-something Asajj Ventress moving fifty years into the future without aging or experiencing the fifty intervening years. Unless she's the main character (heaven forbid) then there is absolutely no reason to do so except fan service and market exploitation. While I wouldn't put that past corporate Disney, I'd at least like to think the filmmakers are better than that.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-02-15 05:36 PM EDT (US)     579 / 1043       
Not from a storytelling perspective. They both result in thirty-something Asajj Ventress moving fifty years into the future without aging or experiencing the fifty intervening years. Unless she's the main character (heaven forbid) then there is absolutely no reason to do so except fan service and market exploitation. While I wouldn't put that past corporate Disney, I'd at least like to think the filmmakers are better than that.
I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree because I do not agree.

Anything that could bring Ventress into the upcoming movies would be a plus in my book. She's a very interesting character.

She evolved from a villain to an anit-hero type character that should be explored further in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 03:37 AM).]

Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-02-15 05:50 PM EDT (US)     580 / 1043       
You use these words... I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-02-15 06:33 PM EDT (US)     581 / 1043       
You use these words... I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Then what do they mean all wise and powerful, Moff?

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-02-2015 @ 06:34 PM).]

Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-02-15 06:45 PM EDT (US)     582 / 1043       
We went over the anti-hero debate. Since there's been no new material since then, it's unlikely that--short of a forced change to justify it--that classification has become remotely more applicable.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-02-15 10:27 PM EDT (US)     583 / 1043       
Yes, she should be explored...more specifically, a blaster bolt should explore her cranium.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Captain Keno
Clone Trooper
posted 04-02-15 11:38 PM EDT (US)     584 / 1043       
Wow Ace, that was kind of... dark there, ya know.
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-03-15 00:20 AM EDT (US)     585 / 1043       
Not really. A dude managed to survive getting cut in half and falling down a pit.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 03:35 AM EDT (US)     586 / 1043       
We went over the anti-hero debate. Since there's been no new material since then, it's unlikely that--short of a forced change to justify it--that classification has become remotely more applicable.
Whatever, Moff.

From my perspective though it is clear to me that Ventress' villain status has been clearly altered to NOT be a villain anymore.

If anti-hero isn't the right word then I don't know what other word to use, but when it comes to Ventress I can't refer to her as being the villain type anymore...it's as plan and simple as that.

Besides, there's also been articles stating that she's no longer a villain as well, so I have that as my backup against anything you and others in here who state otherwise.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 03:44 AM).]

Viceroy Billy
Clone Trooper
(id: Billy9)
posted 04-03-15 07:20 AM EDT (US)     587 / 1043       
I'm curious how many times Shifter has repackaged and reposted the exact same sentiments with only minor variations to them. For example, how many times have we seen:

"Ahsoka is very interesting character, in my opinion." Or the classic "Ventress is an anti-hero, in my opinion."

It must be going on hundreds of times that I've read these words (or ones very similar to them) and man, I'm getting sick of seeing them. We get it.

Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. Sorry, Ted, that's a dumb question... skip that. - Captain Rex Kramer
This is a vegetarian restaurant only, we serve no animal flesh of any kind. We're not only proud of that, we're smug about it. - Michael Palin
L.A. 15, 7 Adam. 10-5 to Mary 3, I've got a blue van in the RV storage lot, 1600 North Willow. 10-35, 7 Adam is rolling.

[This message has been edited by Viceroy Billy (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:21 AM).]

Farlander
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 02:55 PM EDT (US)     588 / 1043       
There's this thing, it's called 'word definition'. If you google it for anti-hero, you'll notice that it always lists that it's the protagonist, central character, main character of the story, because that's what you have to be to be an anti-hero - the protagonist. Because in the most simple terms, an anti-hero is a protagonist who lacks qualities of the traditional heroes.

In short, this means that Ventress is NOT an anti-hero in The Clone Wars. However, she CAN be an anti-hero, if she's the protagonist of the story she's in.

I'm not sure what archetype Ventress corresponds to, as I don't remember enough of TCW (and I stopped watching at some point), but I think she's the Shapeshifter due to her changing loyalties and roles in the story.
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-03-15 03:03 PM EDT (US)     589 / 1043       
There's this thing, it's called 'word definition'. If you google it for anti-hero, you'll notice that it always lists that it's the protagonist, central character, main character of the story, because that's what you have to be to be an anti-hero - the protagonist. Because in the most simple terms, an anti-hero is a protagonist who lacks qualities of the traditional heroes.

In short, this means that Ventress is NOT an anti-hero in The Clone Wars. However, she CAN be an anti-hero, if she's the protagonist of the story she's in.
QFT. Word definitions change, of course, but you don't get to make those definitions up for yourself at any rate--not if you want to have a coherent conversation with the rest of the world that uses words in a specific way.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 05:17 PM EDT (US)     590 / 1043       
There's this thing, it's called 'word definition'. If you google it for anti-hero, you'll notice that it always lists that it's the protagonist, central character, main character of the story, because that's what you have to be to be an anti-hero - the protagonist. Because in the most simple terms, an anti-hero is a protagonist who lacks qualities of the traditional heroes.

In short, this means that Ventress is NOT an anti-hero in The Clone Wars. However, she CAN be an anti-hero, if she's the protagonist of the story she's in.

I'm not sure what archetype Ventress corresponds to, as I don't remember enough of TCW (and I stopped watching at some point), but I think she's the Shapeshifter due to her changing loyalties and roles in the story.
Superman is a hero. Batman is a hero.

Batman guest stars in Superman's comic in which Superman is the protagonist making him the hero. That being the case what is Batman?

Does Batman cease to be a hero simply because he's guest starring in Superman's comic and isn't the protagonist?

A hero, villain, or anti-hero defines who the character is regardless of whether or not they are the protagonist.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 05:20 PM).]

Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-03-15 05:24 PM EDT (US)     591 / 1043       
Hero meaning "superhero" and hero meaning "protagonist with positive moral alignment" are not the same word; anti-hero is a derivative of the second meaning. A character with a negative or non-positive moral alignment who is not the protagonist is simply a side character with a negative or non-positive moral alignment. A villain is simply someone who opposes the protagonist; a negative moral alignment is implied but not necessary--though antagonist is a better term since it lacks the moral judgment of villain.

ETA: Strictly speaking, when he is the star of his own show/movie/comic, Batman is an anti-hero as well as a (super)hero.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Zaarin (edited 04-03-2015 @ 05:25 PM).]

Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 05:34 PM EDT (US)     592 / 1043       
If he's dark, edgy, Burton or Nolan Batman.

Not Schumacher or West. <_<
Batman guest stars in Superman's comic in which Superman is the protagonist making him the hero. That being the case what is Batman?
Guest star. Sidekick or hijacking Mary Sue, depending on author and reader perspective. >_>

Although, semi-related to Shifter's question... how would Paul Atreides/Muad'Dib be classified. He's firstly a deconstruction of the Hero archetype and a rather brutal one at that... but would be an anti-hero? He is brave... but launches a holy war that kills billions. He seeks to limit the damage done by this, more or less killing a million here to avoid slaughtering a billion there. He's deeply devoted to his love, Chani. Yet he shirks from the ultimate sacrifice required to steer humanity out of the doldrums it found itself in due to the spice... and he knows this and acknowledges it as a failing, even as he begs his only son to not do it.

Granted, comparing Paul Muad'Dib to Asaaj Ventress--even with Kevin James Anderson's involvement in the Dune universe--is tantamount to literary blasphemy...

What of, say, Renegade Shepard? Brave, certainly... but possibly harsh and caustic, and with a trail of bodies and blood and an "ends justify the means" attitude. Again... even Shepard versus Ventress is a string of pearls against rock salt on coarse twine...

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology

[This message has been edited by Moff (edited 04-03-2015 @ 05:42 PM).]

ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 05:34 PM EDT (US)     593 / 1043       
Well purely in terms of definitions, anti-hero isn't the opposite of hero. It's a completely different idea.

EDIT: ninja'd.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~

[This message has been edited by ISOmetric (edited 04-03-2015 @ 05:37 PM).]

Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-03-15 05:36 PM EDT (US)     594 / 1043       
Yeah, I don't watch superhero movies (except Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy) and I don't read comics; I've just always gotten the impression that, as you say, Batman is dark and edgy--I wasn't aware he came in a non-edgy variety.
Well purely in terms of definitions, anti-hero isn't the opposite of hero. It's a completely different idea.
Well, sort of. If "hero" is reserved for a protagonist who upholds some kind of traditional morality, then an "anti-hero" is one who does not.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Zaarin (edited 04-03-2015 @ 05:37 PM).]

Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 05:53 PM EDT (US)     595 / 1043       
You weren't ninjaed. YOU WERE BATMANNED

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Farlander
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 06:14 PM EDT (US)     596 / 1043       
Adding to what Zaarin has said, since anti-hero is a character who doesn't possess the qualities of a hero (just for clarification, hero as a character archetype), if we extend it to all characters, then like at least half of the characters of every story are anti-heroes.

So if Ventress is an anti-hero, then so is Palpatine, so is Darth Maul, so is Grievous, so is the cowardly Clone Trooper #534, so is that Senator who is too afraid to help, so is that bartender who likes to take money to provide life-saving information, etc. etc. etc.

Hero (as in character archetype and role in the story) and anti-hero are definitions limited to protagonists for a reason.
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 06:16 PM EDT (US)     597 / 1043       
OR MAYBE STAR WARS R SUPER DARK AND EDGY STORY FOR ADULTS--snrrrk sorry I couldn't say that with a straight face.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
jssf1992
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 06:18 PM EDT (US)     598 / 1043       
Batman
Batman
Batman
Batman
Oh, are we talking about -
Hero meaning "superhero" and hero meaning "protagonist with positive moral alignment" are not the same word; anti-hero is a derivative of the second meaning. A character with a negative or non-positive moral alignment who is not the protagonist is simply a side character with a negative or non-positive moral alignment. A villain is simply someone who opposes the protagonist; a negative moral alignment is implied but not necessary--though antagonist is a better term since it lacks the moral judgment of villain.
Oh, just as an example, pity. Well I think I like the way TvTropes defines the terms, as it leaves space for Hero Antagonist and Villain Protagonist, which, while rare, can be interesting (such as the case with a certain Horrible blog).

Batman is an interesting character to discuss these kinds of labels for, because while he uses scare-tactics and often has questionable mental stability, he also has a rigid moral code that he makes no compromises for.

Currently listening to: Emil Karma
Tann and Reath part two progress
Completely finished: one
Only Narrative needed: five
In progress: two
To be made: six
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 06:18 PM EDT (US)     599 / 1043       
Well to me hero, villain, and anti-hero defines what a character is regardless if they are the main character in the story or not.

If the character is defined as a hero, villain, or anti-hero when they are the main character they are still a hero, villain or an anti-hero when they are not the main character, if that isn't the case to you guys then what are they to you when they are not the main characters?

Be specific.
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 06:23 PM EDT (US)     600 / 1043       
Batman
Batman
Batman
Batman
Nah, mate... you got it backwards. It's "Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na BATMAN"
Well to me hero, villain, and anti-hero defines what a character is regardless if they are the main character in the story or not.
...And 470 nanometers is actually deep red because I say so. <_<

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology

[This message has been edited by Moff (edited 04-03-2015 @ 06:24 PM).]

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