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Topic Subject:Star Wars Rebels
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Empire of Darkness
Clone Trooper
(id: Imperial Force)
posted 05-20-13 09:43 AM EDT (US)         
Star Wars Rebels

Interesting turn of events, and quite frankly, I'm glad to see Filoni involved.

Perhaps an older Ahsoka Tano will appear in this series.

I personally hope they try to take a more series tone with the series, but some how the doubt of that eats away more than the Jar Jar Binks episodes of Clone Wars ever could. The Disney ownership is giving us new movies, the partnership with EA will give us new games; the next couple of years will determine whether or not we actually wanted any of it.

Whoa.

[This message has been edited by Empire of Darkness (edited 05-20-2013 @ 09:46 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 06:36 PM EDT (US)     601 / 1043       
This is the way I see it and I believe it's quite reasonable whether they are the main character or not...being a hero, villain, or anti-hero is part of the personality of a character...it defines what they are.

If you can't define what a character is whether they are the main character or not then how can they even exist as a character?

If we look at all characters in any story as we look at ourselves then we are all main characters in our own lives...each and everyone of us are the main characters of our own life story and the same would go for every character that exists in fiction whether they are the main character or not.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 06:37 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 06:51 PM EDT (US)     602 / 1043       
ATTENTION SWGBHERS

This has become a free-fire zone. Memes will be deployed. You have been warned.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Farlander
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 06:55 PM EDT (US)     603 / 1043       
Well to me hero, villain, and anti-hero defines what a character is regardless if they are the main character in the story or not.
That's like me saying to a doctor that Vitamin B defines a pill and it's still Vitamin B regardless if it's in Ascorutin or Morivital.

They've studied that stuff, just like we've studied storytelling structure and principles. It's not a case of 'to me this is this, to you this is this', it's a case of 'these are the definitions, these are the meanings, these are the tools to use'.

Regarding the question, there's archetypes in storytelling.
Ventress is not an anti-hero, she's a Shapeshifter. A Shapeshifter is somebody who, in short, has uncertain loyalties, though it's a pretty complicated archetype.

Han Solo (Ep.4 version, at least), for example, is the Trickster archetype, even though had he been the protagonist he would be an anti-hero. Same thing with Jack Sparrow, for example.

Then there's also a matter of the role they play in the story. Batman in Superman's story is the Ally, as that's his purpose from the storytelling perspective - to help the Hero on his quest. If we look at it from a character perspective, then Batman, if I'm translating this from another language correctly, is The Guardian. In Batman Begins, for example, he's the Orphan when his parents are killed, The Outcast when he overgoes the training, and The Guardian when he becomes Batman, all that while having the role of a Hero - the protagonist.

A character doesn't have to change their archetypes necessarily. Alfred, for example, is always the Mentor. Etc.

In short, TL;DR:
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 07:05 PM EDT (US)     604 / 1043       
Are we not all the main characters of the story of our own lives?

Being a good or bad person defines who a person is, right?

If we look at every character in fiction main character or not as we look at ourselves then they too are all main characters of their lives as fictional characters and as a result they are who they are...hero, villain, or anti-hero.


When a group of heros form a team they are all referred to as being heros despite the fact that the leader of the team would be the main character of the story of that team.

That is an example that proves my point.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:20 PM).]

Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 04-03-15 07:18 PM EDT (US)     605 / 1043       

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
Expanding Fronts Mod
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 07:21 PM EDT (US)     606 / 1043       

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 07:22 PM EDT (US)     607 / 1043       
What the heck is that suppose to mean?

I don't get it.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:26 PM).]

Farlander
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 07:27 PM EDT (US)     608 / 1043       
Sigh. Why did I even bother writing all that shit.

Here's how every conversation with Shifter essentially goes:
Shifter: "I really like this cheeseburger."
Us: "There's no cheese in it. It's not a cheeseburger."
Shifter: "But it wouldn't be the same without the fries!"
Us: "What fries have to do with this being a cheeseburger?"
Shifter: "It's got bread buns on both sides, therefore I'm right."

PS. The hero example doesn't prove anything because you're combining the two different definitions of the word 'hero' (even though Zaarin explained all that) and ignoring the existence of character archetypes, as well as the already mentioned multiple times storytelling principles so whatever. Enjoy your cheeseburger.

[This message has been edited by Farlander (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:33 PM).]

Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 07:35 PM EDT (US)     609 / 1043       
Is it so wrong for me to look at things the way that I do?

Hero, villain, and anti-hero is how I define the personality of a character regardless of whether or not they are the main character/protagonist.

I don't see a problem with that and I don't understand why the rest of you have a problem with me because of it.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:36 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-03-15 07:40 PM EDT (US)     610 / 1043       
Is it so wrong for me to look at things the way that I do?
"And am I so wrong to think that they might love me too
Why shouldn't they adore me? Is it not within my right?
I'll not be overshadowed! Mine is not the lesser light!
I've waited long enough now for them all to come around;
And though the sun may plead and threaten
The moon will stand her ground!
And all will know the wonder
Of my dark and jeweled sky
When all the world is wrapped in
An eternal lullaby!
So say goodnight, at this
The final setting of the sun!
Tomorrow dawns in darkness
THE NIGHT TIME HAS BEGUN
"

You hit that cue perfectly, Shifter. I congratulate you.

And the problem is you're casually rewriting terminology to fit your worldview. You're actually saying, "because your definition doesn't fit my idea, I will rewrite the meaning of the word so I can use it to support my idea." You cannot do that; that undermines the very idea of language, communication, and discussion.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology

[This message has been edited by Moff (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:41 PM).]

jssf1992
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 07:50 PM EDT (US)     611 / 1043       
This is the way I see it and I believe it's quite reasonable whether they are the main character or not...being a hero, villain, or anti-hero is part of the personality of a character...it defines what they are.
I actually agree with Shifter in this respect.

The way I see it looks something like this*

Protagonist: The Main Character. The one(s) from who's viewpoint the audience chiefly see the story. In the case of Third Person Omniscient viewpoint, this would go to the person(s) that get the most time (and likely the "good guys")

Antagonist: The Opponent. The character(s) and/or the organization that the protagonist(s) works to stop.

Hero: The Good Guy(s). The character(s) or group that works toward a goal that the audience is supposed to find good. Is often (but not always) the protagonist.

Anti-Hero: A Hero that some manner of unappealing qualities, whether he's a loser, cruel, has less-than-heroic motivations or backgrounds, or doesn't care what means she uses.

Villain: The Bad Guy(s). The character(s) or group that the audience supposed to find well . . . bad. Often the antagonist, but not always.

Anti-Villain: A Villain that has some manner of appealing qualities. Perhaps he's sympathetic, has some manner of honor, or thinks that she's doing the right thing.

Hero Antagonist and Villain Protagonist: What you get when a story is told from the villain's point of view.


This is pretty basic, but I think it's a pretty good way to look at things.

*Not suggesting others have to.

Edit: Straws? What?
And I missed more . . .

Currently listening to: I'll Face Myself (Persona 4)
Currently kind of lost . . .

[This message has been edited by jssf1992 (edited 04-03-2015 @ 07:54 PM).]

Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 07:54 PM EDT (US)     612 / 1043       
And the problem is you're casually rewriting terminology to fit your worldview. You're actually saying, "because your definition doesn't fit my idea, I will rewrite the meaning of the word so I can use it to support my idea." You cannot do that; that undermines the very idea of language, communication, and discussion.
We all have our own perspective of things and we have the right to it as individuals.

Let's just make this clear...I'm not disagreeing with what anyone has stated here. You are all correct in what you have stated.

I'm just saying that I still feel that being a hero, villain, or anti-hero defines a character's personality and that makes them the hero, villain, or anti-hero whether they are the main character of the story or not.
This is the way I see it and I believe it's quite reasonable whether they are the main character or not...being a hero, villain, or anti-hero is part of the personality of a character...it defines what they are.
I actually agree with Shifter in this respect.

The way I see it looks something like this*

Protagonist: The Main Character. The one(s) from who's viewpoint the audience chiefly see the story. In the case of Third Person Omniscient viewpoint, this would go to the person(s) that get the most time (and likely the "good guys")

Antagonist: The Opponent. The character(s) and/or the organization that the protagonist(s) works to stop.

Hero: The Good Guy(s). The character(s) or group that works toward a goal that the audience is supposed to find good. Is often (but not always) the protagonist.

Anti-Hero: A Hero that some manner of unappealing qualities, whether he's a loser, cruel, has less-than-heroic motivations or backgrounds, or doesn't care what means she uses.

Villain: The Bad Guy(s). The character(s) or group that the audience supposed to find well . . . bad. Often the antagonist, but not always.

Anti-Villain: A Villain that has some manner of appealing qualities. Perhaps he's sympathetic, has some manner of honor, or thinks that she's doing the right thing.

Hero Antagonist and Villain Protagonist: What you get when a story is told from the villain's point of view.


This is pretty basic, but I think it's a pretty good way to look at things.
Thank you.

At least someone here is making an effort to comprehend how I look at things instead of criticizing me for it.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 08:06 PM).]

Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-03-15 08:28 PM EDT (US)     613 / 1043       
Hero (as in character archetype and role in the story) and anti-hero are definitions limited to protagonists for a reason.
Exactly. It becomes an increasingly meaningless descriptor the further one moves from the center of the narrative.
Well to me hero, villain, and anti-hero defines what a character is regardless if they are the main character in the story or not.
But the entire point is that inventing your own definitions makes rational discussion impossible.
If the character is defined as a hero, villain, or anti-hero when they are the main character they are still a hero, villain or an anti-hero when they are not the main character, if that isn't the case to you guys then what are they to you when they are not the main characters?

Be specific.
It depends on what their new narrative role is.
This is the way I see it and I believe it's quite reasonable whether they are the main character or not...being a hero, villain, or anti-hero is part of the personality of a character...it defines what they are.

If you can't define what a character is whether they are the main character or not then how can they even exist as a character?

If we look at all characters in any story as we look at ourselves then we are all main characters in our own lives...each and everyone of us are the main characters of our own life story and the same would go for every character that exists in fiction whether they are the main character or not.
You are confusing personality traits with narrative functions. "Anti-hero," "hero," and "villain" are all narrative functions that define a protagonist or his primary adversary. In most traditional Western narratives, the protagonist was the "good" guy and the antagonist was the "bad" guy; when that started changing, the term "anti-hero" was introduced to distinguish a protagonist who was not the traditional "good guy." Since most characters (outside of SW) tend to be more morally ambiguous, the terms "protagonist" and "antagonist" tend to be more useful in discussing modern literature; "hero," "anti-hero," and "villain" may still be useful in discussing SW, traditional literature, high fantasy, and comic books which still retain a more mythological structure--but still only for describing the protagonist.
That's like me saying to a doctor that Vitamin B defines a pill and it's still Vitamin B regardless if it's in Ascorutin or Morivital.

They've studied that stuff, just like we've studied storytelling structure and principles. It's not a case of 'to me this is this, to you this is this', it's a case of 'these are the definitions, these are the meanings, these are the tools to use'.

Regarding the question, there's archetypes in storytelling.
Ventress is not an anti-hero, she's a Shapeshifter. A Shapeshifter is somebody who, in short, has uncertain loyalties, though it's a pretty complicated archetype.

Han Solo (Ep.4 version, at least), for example, is the Trickster archetype, even though had he been the protagonist he would be an anti-hero. Same thing with Jack Sparrow, for example.

Then there's also a matter of the role they play in the story. Batman in Superman's story is the Ally, as that's his purpose from the storytelling perspective - to help the Hero on his quest. If we look at it from a character perspective, then Batman, if I'm translating this from another language correctly, is The Guardian. In Batman Begins, for example, he's the Orphan when his parents are killed, The Outcast when he overgoes the training, and The Guardian when he becomes Batman, all that while having the role of a Hero - the protagonist.

A character doesn't have to change their archetypes necessarily. Alfred, for example, is always the Mentor. Etc.
QFT. This pretty well sums it up. On a side note, I love the Trickster archetype, especially in its most traditional modes (Raven/Coyote from Native American myths, Jacob in the Bible, Loki in Norse mythology) and I really want to write a book with one of these as a supporting character.
Are we not all the main characters of the story of our own lives?

Being a good or bad person defines who a person is, right?

If we look at every character in fiction main character or not as we look at ourselves then they too are all main characters of their lives as fictional characters and as a result they are who they are...hero, villain, or anti-hero.
We're not discussing real life. We're discussing fiction.
And the problem is you're casually rewriting terminology to fit your worldview. You're actually saying, "because your definition doesn't fit my idea, I will rewrite the meaning of the word so I can use it to support my idea." You cannot do that; that undermines the very idea of language, communication, and discussion.
This. Again.
Edit: Straws? What?
This might help.
The way I see it looks something like this
Farlander pointed out the problem with these definitions: when defining a non-protagonist with them, basically everybody becomes an anti-hero. And an essentially all-inclusive category simply isn't useful.
We all have our own perspective of things and we have the right to it as individuals.
Yes, but changing the meaning of words to suit your argument only leads to circular arguments and futile discussions. Definitions are not fixed, but they are defined by consensus of their speakers not personal preference.
At least someone here is making an effort to comprehend how I look at things instead of criticizing me for it.
We understand you; we disagree with you.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 09:11 PM EDT (US)     614 / 1043       
But the entire point is that inventing your own definitions makes rational discussion impossible.
I'm not inventing my own definitions I'm seeing personality traits that define characters as being heros, villains, and anti-heros.

None of them can be what they are without those personality traits that define what they are.
You are confusing personality traits with narrative functions. "Anti-hero," "hero," and "villain" are all narrative functions that define a protagonist or his primary adversary.
How can a hero, villain, or anti-hero be what they are without the personality traits that define them as being what they are?
We're not discussing real life. We're discussing fiction.
I don't know about you, but when I read a fictional story I consider each character as having their own story and that makes them their own main character of their own life that crosses paths with what the story considers to be the main character.
Yes, but changing the meaning of words to suit your argument only leads to circular arguments and futile discussions. Definitions are not fixed, but they are defined by consensus of their speakers not personal preference.
I'm not changing the meaning of anything. I'm seeing personality traits that define characters as being heros, villains, and anti-heros without which those characters wouldn't be what makes them to be the characters that they are.

A character's personality defines them as being heros, villains, or anti-heros. Without those personality traits they can't be heros, villains, or anti-heros to begin with.
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-03-15 09:24 PM EDT (US)     615 / 1043       
How can a hero, villain, or anti-hero be what they are without the personality traits that define them as being what they are?
The point is that "hero," "villain," and "anti-hero" aren't personality traits; they're narrative functions. Yes, the character's personality traits are what make a particular character in the role of protagonist a hero or anti-hero and those traits remain if the character ceases to be a protagonist, but their narrative role as hero or anti-hero do not.
I don't know about you, but when I read a fictional story I consider each character as having their own story and that makes them their own main character of their own life that crosses paths with what the story considers to be the main character.
If a story is well written, then each character will have his or her own motives and personalities and goals. But that doesn't make them function as the protagonist of the story they are in. Banquo may be a perfectly interesting character, but he's not the hero of Macbeth.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-03-15 09:52 PM EDT (US)     616 / 1043       
The point is that "hero," "villain," and "anti-hero" aren't personality traits; they're narrative functions. Yes, the character's personality traits are what make a particular character in the role of protagonist a hero or anti-hero and those traits remain if the character ceases to be a protagonist, but their narrative role as hero or anti-hero do not.
Then what is hero, villain, or anti-hero to be called when they are not the protagonist when their personality traits define them to be the hero, villain, or anti-hero?

Doesn't the words hero, villain, or anti-hero also sum up what the personality traits make that character to be?

For example...in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Electro was the main villain and Harry as the Green Goblin wasn't, but does the Green Goblin cease to be a villain character simply because he wasn't the main villain in the movie?

Another example...Captain America can be considered to be the leader of the hero team The Avengers making him the main character in the film.

So, does that make Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, and Black Widow cease to be heros due to Captain America being the protagonist due to being the team's leader?

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-03-2015 @ 09:55 PM).]

Farlander
Clone Trooper
posted 04-04-15 06:20 AM EDT (US)     617 / 1043       
Then what is hero, villain, or anti-hero to be called when they are not the protagonist when their personality traits define them to be the hero, villain, or anti-hero?

Doesn't the words hero, villain, or anti-hero also sum up what the personality traits make that character to be?
We answered this question already a bunch of times.

In a story where Batman's not the hero he's the Guardian. And if he is the hero, he's still the Guardian.
In a story where Jack Sparrow's not the anti-hero, he's the Trickster. And when he's an anti-hero, he's still the Trickster.

Archetypes.

And no, hero, villain and anti-hero don't sum up the personality traits.

A Shadow can be the villain. A Shadow also can be the anti-hero if he's the protagonist. The Villain can also be the Shapeshifter. Or the Mentor. Or the Trickster (for example - Loki).

As already mentioned, the Trickster protagonist would be an anti-hero. But so would be the Fool protagonist. They're totally different personalities, yet both would be anti-heroes, which is why anti-hero (as well as hero/villain) do not define or sum up personalities, but role functions in the narrative.
For example...in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Electro was the main villain and Harry as the Green Goblin wasn't, but does the Green Goblin cease to be a villain character simply because he wasn't the main villain in the movie?
Nobody's saying that works of fiction are limited to one antagonist or one protagonist. In case of Amazing Spider-Man 2, it has 2 antagonists both of which serve the function of a villain, yet Electro's the Shapeshifter while Green Goblin's the Shadow.
Another example...Captain America can be considered to be the leader of the hero team The Avengers making him the main character in the film.

So, does that make Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, and Black Widow cease to be heros due to Captain America being the protagonist due to being the team's leader?
A work can feature multiple protagonists (well, not technically, just one, but deuteragonists and tritagonists etc. serve essentially the same function). Or none at all. For example, Game of Thrones doesn't have a protagonist (Ned Stark could be considered as such for a while, but there's too many different threads, point of views, etc. now for there to be a protagonist).

Ensemble types of fiction can be tricky. For example, in something like Firefly or Angel, the protagonist is clear - it's Mal and Angel, despite it being an ensemble cast. In something like, let's say, a TMNT movie/show, there may be more than one protagonist.

Your logic of defining a protagonist though is flawed. Leader of the team doesn't mean he is the protagonist, that's not how they are defined (not to mention that once again you're trying to compare two different meanings of the word hero, but we've already mentioned that shittons of times as well)

I wouldn't say that there's one clear protagonist in the Avengers, but if anybody fits that role - it's Iron Man. He's the character who goes through an actual arc throughout the movie, and for the most part the character we're following the most/closer to as an audience.

[This message has been edited by Farlander (edited 04-04-2015 @ 06:29 AM).]

Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 04-04-15 08:15 AM EDT (US)     618 / 1043       
This might help.
It was 'grasping at straws.'

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
Expanding Fronts Mod
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-04-15 12:02 PM EDT (US)     619 / 1043       
And even despite the examples of Batman and Superman and Mal Reynolds and villain protagonists... the point ultimately is that Asaaj Ventress is not the anti-hero of TCW. <_<

She's a Mauve Shirt Elite Mook undergoing a Heel-Face Revolving Door.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 04-04-15 01:47 PM EDT (US)     620 / 1043       
Rather than quote everything Farlander just said, I'll just say "what Farlander said."
It was 'grasping at straws.'
To be fair, straw man works too.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-04-15 01:54 PM EDT (US)     621 / 1043       
To be fair, straw man works too.
No. >_>

Wait, sorry. Wrong thread. And you're right.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 04-18-15 01:08 PM EDT (US)     622 / 1043       
Trailer for Rebels season 2.

Can't say I'm a fan of the direction it seems to be taking...

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-18-15 01:28 PM EDT (US)     623 / 1043       
Boo Rex, boo Ahsoka, and boo A-Wings and B-Wings.

YAY VADER CUTTING OFF KANAN'S HANDS (You do know Kanan's gonna bodycheck him just before Ezra chops his own head off)

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-24-15 06:59 PM EDT (US)     624 / 1043       
Trailer for Rebels season 2.

Can't say I'm a fan of the direction it seems to be taking...
Looks pretty interesting to me. I might decide to start watching the series as a result of it.

I wonder if Ventress will end up making an appearance in the show eventually as well.
Boo Rex,
I thought you liked Rex's character.
boo Ahsoka
Those be fighting words.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-24-2015 @ 07:01 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-24-15 07:04 PM EDT (US)     625 / 1043       
I thought you liked Rex's character.
I did... right up until I saw him in that trailer. Now he's ruined.

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Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-24-15 07:08 PM EDT (US)     626 / 1043       
I did... right up until I saw him in that trailer. Now he's ruined.
Other than being older (which is to be expected under the circumstances) what makes him ruined?

Obviously he was one of the few clones able to resist Order 66.

There were other clones that did the same, right?

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-24-2015 @ 07:11 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 04-24-15 07:48 PM EDT (US)     627 / 1043       
...No, that was the whole point to Order 66. But Rex is special. Wolffe is special. Somehow. So they turn up as liberated clones instead of Stormtroopers.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Shifter
Clone Trooper
posted 04-24-15 08:18 PM EDT (US)     628 / 1043       
...No, that was the whole point to Order 66. But Rex is special. Wolffe is special. Somehow. So they turn up as liberated clones instead of Stormtroopers.
Is that your issue with Rex's character now? That he didn't end up obeying Order 66 and then become a Stromtropper?

I thought other clones also disobeyed order 66 due to strength of will (or something like that...correct me if I'm wrong) and Rex could be considered one of those who would have that strength of will...especially how he felt towards Ahsoka and likely other jedi as well.

It's obvious that Ashoka and Rex kept in touch with each other after she left the jedi order.



I think Ventress does make an appearance in the trailer.

Is it just me or does the female character that appears in 1:37 and then again in 2:40 fighting a male character in the trailer appear to look very Ventress like?

Trailer for Rebels season 2.

It could be Ventress in a new costume.

[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 04-24-2015 @ 08:53 PM).]

ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 04-24-15 10:34 PM EDT (US)     629 / 1043       
Well, I'm not sure how canonical the RC books I was reading were, but the two Republic Commando squads that it focusses on decided that they wouldn't kill the two Jedi that had been closely connected with them. These were fairly extreme circumstances though, as one of the Jedi had already left the order and the other was the mother of a Commando's child. The Null ARCs had no interest in killing Jedi, but they also had no interest in following orders anyway, and always did their own thing.

The rest of the clones, however, saw the Jedi as out of touch, corrupt, inappropriately trained commanders who had no issues with taking control of an army of clones who had no say in what they did with their lives. They were sent from engagement to engagement with little rest and were given no pay and rarely time off base. The vast majority of clones saw their Jedi commanders of disconnected overlords who preached peace and freedom but sent them to die every day. They mostly followed their orders without question or a hint of resentment (they learned how to do that on Kamino - clones who stepped barely out of line were sent for reconditioning, a process that clone either returned from broken or didn't return at all), but when the order came through to relieve themselves of their oppressive and arrogant commanders, many would have done it without a second thought.

Not to mention that the official reason for the order being given was an attempted coup by the Jedi. Four Jedi masters marched into the chancellor's office and demanded that he hand over control of the Republic to them. Imagine that, after being sent by them into war to defend the Republic... a Republic that they didn't sign up to defend in the first place.

Of course, some clones may have made the decision not to kill their commanders, but it would have been very foolish and extremely dangerous not to follow a contingency order.

In terms of Ventress... ug, you could be right. Her lightsabre and fighting style does appear to be very different though, and it's a substantial stretch to have her working for Vader now.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 04-24-15 11:46 PM EDT (US)     630 / 1043       
The RC books are no longer canonical. HOWEVER, there is no reason for the clones to disobey Order 66, and the fact that there were in this new canon is dumb as hell. Clones were conditioned to be LESS independent. What would the point of that conditioning be if they had the option to disobey the order that they were ultimately MADE for?

As I said. Dumb as hell, and pandering to the ridiculous hardcore PT fans. Not a smart move in the slightest.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
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