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SWGB Heaven » Forums » Star Wars Universe » Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS INSIDE)
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Topic Subject:Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS INSIDE)
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Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 12-13-17 01:48 PM EDT (US)         
The Last Jedi is only a couple of days away from release. As such, a new thread has been opened for discussion of the film and surrounding materials, spoilers included. The previous thread opened by Keno is to remain spoiler-free. Violation of this will result in punishment as deemed appropriate by the moderation staff.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
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AuthorReplies:
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 12-17-17 02:45 PM EDT (US)     31 / 187       
Because I totally said that art shouldn't be political or that political art was exclusively American (I'm a literature major: I think I've read Swift. And Dickens. And Plato.). What I said was, "Not all art is political" and that viewing any type of philosophical or religious viewpoint as political is very American (and also very postmodern).

EDIT: I think what you're saying is that all art has a political context, which is true but is also very different from saying that all art is political, which is not true.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Emissary of the Prophets (edited 12-17-2017 @ 02:59 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-17-17 06:48 PM EDT (US)     32 / 187       
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oifhpT0HZ7Q

How many do they have right so far?

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-22-17 01:54 PM EDT (US)     33 / 187       

Awwwwwwwww...

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
THE Fake Bryl
SWGBH Downloads Admin
(id: The Real Bryl)
posted 12-22-17 03:42 PM EDT (US)     34 / 187       
Somehow I don't think Chewie will be able to relate when Rey starts freaking out over her first pubic hair.
How many do they have right so far?
We know JJ Abrams saw the Plinkett prequel reviews before directing Ep7. Plinkett even recommended JJ as a director for a new Star Wars film! Similarly we know Rian Johnson loves (and fears) Red Letter Media.

Does that mean Red Letter Media are essentially writing the new Star Wars films?

The "Real" Bryl
"It's such a fine line between clever and stupid."

paulstreet.bandcamp.com
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-22-17 08:40 PM EDT (US)     35 / 187       
...I think Rey had that figured out once Chewie came along. The rest of the discussion can go on in Endless Trashposting, along with other discussions of hygiene and feminine health issues that Rey faced.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 12-23-17 07:32 AM EDT (US)     36 / 187       
After thinking about it a little bit (not all that much) and having only seen Ep 8 once (going again in a few hours) I have a bit of a ranking:

ESB: Just the best. Had interesting characters who we see a lot of together, a good amount of tension throughout the movie, the best, most meaningful lightsaber duel in the franchise. Also, a bloody fantastic soundtrack; I think that SW music quite often gets lumped together, but ESB has some real bangers!

TLJ: As it stands, second on my list. It's different, and although it has issues the things that I'm remembering and still thinking about days later are just the good things. Maybe it's a case of rose coloured glasses and it will slip down in the rankings later, but currently it is my second favourite of all the movies. It's quirky, exciting and meaningful. Love it.

RO: This is probably a controversial one. I think Rogue One gets a lot of hate for just cramming in loads of fan service, but that's really not what I saw in the movie. I saw questions raised (a little heavy handedly, but it is Star Wars after all) about the nature of these "Good Guys" who we've taken for granted as being heroes since ANH, and what motivates them. If anything, it just didn't do enough of this. Krennic was great, Vader's appearance was perfect and the cinematography was great.

ANH: A very solid movie.

TFA: I tend to shuffle this and ANH about in the list a bit; not really surprising, since they're the same movie. In the end, I think ANH trumps it, but maybe just for the nostalgia factor. I feel that TFA is not quite as cohesive as ANH and jumps around a bit, and the acting possibly isn't quite as interesting.

ROTJ: Flawed, but quite lovely. I think my problem with ROTJ (aside from Ewoks) is that not all that much happens? I dunno. It's a great trilogy conclusion I thin, but as a standalone movie, it's just alright.

ROTS: A bad movie. Very boring.

TPM: Not boring, I'll give it that. Just pointless and juvenile.

AOTC: Very, very boring. This movie mostly consists of conversations in different set-pieces, with a very flashy battle at the end with graphics reminiscent of a 2009 video game. Incoherent and slow - a big mess.

Discuss!

EDIT: seeing as there aren't any spoilers in this (which I expected) I'm going to put it in general Star Wars talk for those who haven't seen the movie too.

EDIT 2: welp, it's archived. Request to unlock?

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~

[This message has been edited by ISOmetric (edited 12-23-2017 @ 06:09 PM).]

Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 12-23-17 03:24 PM EDT (US)     37 / 187       
I'll respond to that when you move it over to the general SW thread. Don't want to drive this off topic.

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 12-23-17 06:09 PM EDT (US)     38 / 187       
Done.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-23-17 06:15 PM EDT (US)     39 / 187       
Remember, anything about spoilers goes back in here.

Or Moff bans you to the 24-hour anime-and-Ponies chamber.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
neo222
Clone Trooper
posted 12-23-17 09:05 PM EDT (US)     40 / 187       
Sorry, Iso... No offense, but you're mad.

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...
Scholomancer
Clone Trooper
(id: Solomon)
posted 12-24-17 06:11 AM EDT (US)     41 / 187       
A few points. I'm going to get into detail but if you're on a Star Wars forum and haven't seen the film yet AND come into a conversation with a spoilers warning, then that's on you:

Yes, I can see the points about Snoke being the speed bump on the path of Ben's development, but I strongly believe he wasn't a big enough character to draw out Ben's development. OR he was exactly what he needed to be, but was given too much screen time to do it in.

I mean I get it that this trilogy is about the development of Ben and Rey, and I truly enjoy how this movie pretty much puts every character in shades of gray one way or the other, but I need my evil people - no, make that all characters - to be dramatic about it. My evil people in particular need to be Dooku and Sidious kind of evil, not the unexplained skull fracture and bathrobes kind of evil. The big bad guy not only talks forever but explains everything in a conversational tone. No dramatic gravitas whatsoever - in fact the least compelling and dramatic character in the entire film, although that's possibly a tie with the slicer.

I'm kind of surprised no Billy Dee Williams tbh; I had hoped that was who the master cracker would have been or associated with, or at least given a cameo.

I thought in the first movie that Ridley's portrayal of Rae was amazing; this time that honour goes Driver's portrayal of Ben - wow that guy has some acting chops. There were so many scenes that Ben had a choice, and I loved the indecision on Driver's face each time. I especially loved the scenes where he was going to kill his mother, whom he still loved, and couldn't. And then again with Rey, the person who was emotionally closest to him in a long, long time - and couldn't.

I could get into casting a lot more, but I liked how Rose is NOT the tradional-looking Hollywood actress.

Also, I actually have a feeling that Ren lied to Rey about her parentage; I may be wrong, and the little boy with the broomstick thing would be a tie in that anyone from any background could be special.

A couple of my favourite shots were Leia blown out into space AND the cruiser's suicide run. Both shots were flatly amazing. I enjoyed the initial space battle immensely for what it exactly was - a star wars space battle.

Lastly, I agree with many people here about the tight focus of the film.

Honestly, there were a couple of Disney moments in there that kind of got to me, like the extended chase scene on the casino world, or some of the nattering back and forth chirping that's a part of every live-action Disney movie I can think of.


Remember to Breathe - Dashboard Confessional
-Here I Am, and here I remain! - Leto Atreides, Dune

[This message has been edited by Scholomancer (edited 12-24-2017 @ 08:37 AM).]

ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 12-24-17 07:49 AM EDT (US)     42 / 187       
Sorry, Iso... No offense, but you're mad.
I mean, none taken, but you're going to have to qualify that!

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~

[This message has been edited by ISOmetric (edited 12-24-2017 @ 11:40 AM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-24-17 11:35 AM EDT (US)     43 / 187       
u mad bro

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
neo222
Clone Trooper
posted 12-24-17 02:43 PM EDT (US)     44 / 187       
Dude... you said the Last Jedi is better than both RoTJ and ANH. That's a pretty bold claim.

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...

[This message has been edited by Princess Jenny_chan (edited 12-24-2017 @ 02:45 PM).]

Maegereg
Clone Trooper
posted 12-24-17 05:41 PM EDT (US)     45 / 187       
Also, I actually have a feeling that Ren lied to Rey about her parentage;
I'm quite sure than Rian Johnson didn't intent him to be lying about it, but since the next movie goes back to JJ Abrahms there's a decent chance it gets retconned.

Maegereg
,,,,,,,,,,Crusader for Commas,,,,,,,,,,
"404 errors scare me too..." -Cadre ][ "We outnumber them. Theoretically, we should win." -RESOME ][ "OD scares me. A lot. I'd sooner drop napalm on it than post on it." -Rotaretilbo
Free Kenan
Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 12-24-17 07:27 PM EDT (US)     46 / 187       
Can't wait to watch Star Wars turn into a narrative tug-of-war because there's nobody in charge that has a plan.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
Expanding Fronts Mod
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-24-17 08:14 PM EDT (US)     47 / 187       
So, basically latter-day EU? Especially during all of the Clone Wars stories (prior to the CGI cartoon)?

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 12-24-17 08:26 PM EDT (US)     48 / 187       
Pretty much. The EU and films have basically traded places in the new canon when it comes to cohesion.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
Expanding Fronts Mod
Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 12-25-17 01:41 AM EDT (US)     49 / 187       
Well it's run by someone handpicked by Lucas. Of course this wasn't going to end well

What was YOUR ME3 ending: Merge with Helios, Illuminati, or Tracer Tong?
"I feel like I just watched Dwayne Johnson beat a small disabled child. Except the disabled child is really an infant clone of Hitler. It's so painful to watch...but so glorious." - Cheapy
"The Rebels only have one rank: traitor." - Eothain
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-25-17 02:41 PM EDT (US)     50 / 187       
Again, all this did was make it so LFL didn't have to pay for distribution. Disney puts it out there, but LFL is the same LFL that gave us Ahsoka, reboot Ventress, Master Soon Baytes, Karen Traviss, Dave Filoni, Jahan Cross, Crystal Star, Darksaber...

We just lost the guy who came up with the prequels.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
neo222
Clone Trooper
posted 12-27-17 02:53 PM EDT (US)     51 / 187       
So I saw TLJ again a second time, I enjoyed it more because my expectations were lower...

I still think the 'that's not what I expected' line wasn't because of Poe's sexism. Hell he respects Leia... Think it's more to do with the fact that she could be relatively young for a vice admiral... or the fact that she has pink hair.

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...
ISOmetric
Clone Trooper
posted 12-27-17 05:46 PM EDT (US)     52 / 187       
Yeah, on a rewatch I'm leaning more towards something different: she's dressed like a diplomat, I guess. Smart, elegant and over the top hair. It would make a lot of sense that Poe wouldn't like a diplomat, and the "not what I expected line" also makes sense too. Stands to reason that he wouldn't expect a war hero to look like that.

It's a long road that has no turning - It's never too late to mend.
The darkest hour is before the dawn, and even this war must end.


Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster - Widely considered the galaxy's best drink, the effects of which are like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

~\\*.. The Real McCoy ..*//~
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-28-17 11:13 AM EDT (US)     53 / 187       

Aww.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 12-28-17 04:44 PM EDT (US)     54 / 187       
In other words, the EU predicted they'd look like thirty-year-olds with greying hair.

ETA: I'll actually see the movie soon. Hopefully.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992

[This message has been edited by Emissary of the Prophets (edited 12-28-2017 @ 04:44 PM).]

Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-28-17 05:18 PM EDT (US)     55 / 187       
Oh, sweet Celestia... you haven't seen it yet? O_O

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Maegereg
Clone Trooper
posted 12-29-17 11:15 AM EDT (US)     56 / 187       
Think it's more to do with the fact that she could be relatively young for a vice admiral... or the fact that she has pink hair.
she's dressed like a diplomat, I guess. Smart, elegant and over the top hair. It would make a lot of sense that Poe wouldn't like a diplomat, and the "not what I expected line" also makes sense too. Stands to reason that he wouldn't expect a war hero to look like that.
To me at least it sounds like you're not disagreeing with me about this.

Maegereg
,,,,,,,,,,Crusader for Commas,,,,,,,,,,
"404 errors scare me too..." -Cadre ][ "We outnumber them. Theoretically, we should win." -RESOME ][ "OD scares me. A lot. I'd sooner drop napalm on it than post on it." -Rotaretilbo
Free Kenan
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-29-17 12:58 PM EDT (US)     57 / 187       
The hair is fine, people. It's space. It could even be natural (though Wookiee says dyed) with the amount of genetic divergence you'd have in a quintillion-strong human population spread across thousands of planets for thousands of years.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
neo222
Clone Trooper
posted 12-29-17 01:22 PM EDT (US)     58 / 187       
I am disagreeing. We both agree that he doesn't trust her, that much is true, however we clearly disagree on the reason for the distrust. You're saying he distrusts her because she's a woman which makes no sense because he clearly has no problem with Leia who was also a woman. I've mentioned the reasons why he could be saying she's not what he expected so I won't bother repeating it. I mean, it could just be good ol' fashioned sexism but I don't think that's likely, and it's a bit of a stretch to assume it is.

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...
Xicon
Clone Trooper
(id: jaxbrandon)
posted 12-29-17 02:16 PM EDT (US)     59 / 187       
I think Maeg's point is that Poe's expectations of what a "war hero" would look like are rooted in sexist ideas. Which is true. Just because Poe trusts and has a tremendous respect for one woman does not mean that he does not have subconscious sexist biases.

I don't think there's a way to read Poe's impressions of Holdo that aren't at the very least partially colored by sexism. But that's not a bad thing. Poe's a man, all men are complicit in systemic sexism, he has a moment where it affects his judgment, and by the end of the film he has recognized his error and will hopefully move forward from it. It doesn't mean he's a bad person, it means he failed, and now needs to accept that failure and move forward.

Hey, that's the theme of the movie!

xicon | make art. make rent. help others do the same.
let go of the little distractions
hold close to the ones that you love
because we won't all be here this time next year
so while you can, take a picture of us
Uchuu Senkan Yamoffo
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 12-29-17 05:50 PM EDT (US)     60 / 187       
You are welcome to bring your own interpretation to the movie.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
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