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SWGB Heaven » Forums » Star Wars Universe » Twenty Years of Special Editions and Prequels... What's Different?
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Topic Subject:Twenty Years of Special Editions and Prequels... What's Different?
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 02-26-17 07:00 PM EDT (US)         
This is a carryover from the Scenario Design thread so we didn't take Keno's thread further off-topic. Many of us were approximately in the target audience age when the PT and some changes of the SE were made. We've since aged, gotten bitter and cynical, and generally have a negative view of some large swathe of Star Wars canon pre-Disney.

But was there a time when you clapped for Jar Jar? Or cheered the epic Jedi battle in the Geonosian arena? Or were amazed by climactic duel in ROTS? No shame, no put-downs. Do you still enjoy some aspect of the films?

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"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
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Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 02-26-17 07:32 PM EDT (US)     1 / 17       
When I was a kid, sure I was all over these things.

I still think TPM is the most likable of the three prequels. Or rather, the least offensive of them.

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"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
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Flying Ace
Clone Trooper
(id: Lord Vader672)
posted 02-26-17 07:35 PM EDT (US)     2 / 17       
The Duel of the Fates remains one of my favorite fight scenes in the PT, surpassed only by Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. The Dooku fights were...meh.

And honestly I didn't really mind the first attempt at a special edition. You know, the old VHS ones. Still have them somewhere. For the most part those were just cleaning things up (see-through snowspeeder anyone?), so no big deal.

I still think with a better director (and script) the PT could have been fantastic. Just no Jake Lloyd...I'll gladly take Hayden over whatever the hell that was.

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Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 02-26-17 08:36 PM EDT (US)     3 / 17       
I was never amused by Jar Jar, but on the other hand I grew out of both slapstick and bathroom humor quite early for a boy.

As a kid, however, I confess to liking Jake Lloyd's Anakin (I was ten and there was a kid in space, okay? Same with Wesley Crusher. ), the idea of a teenage monarch who confesses to not being the youngest in the history of her people (even if as an adult it makes me wonder what on Earth is wrong with the people of Naboo that they elect children to lead them ), and thoroughly enjoying hundreds of lightsabers in one place.

I'll join Dallows in saying that TPM is probably the best or least offensive of the trilogy. It also has going for it that Amidala's stunning fusion of East Asian and Baroque fashion is easily the highlight of the entire prequel trilogy; Trisha Biggar was by far the most talented person to work on any of the prequels. While I enjoyed Kamino (more its austere visual aesthetic than anything else, admittedly), otherwise AotC is too many scenes of Hayden and Natalie alone together with no halfway decent actors to support them, and RotS, while occasionally somewhat enjoyable in its own right, just doesn't fit the saga thematically. That may sound somewhat surprising from a person who has always advocated a darker side of Star Wars (as exemplified in TSL, for example), but the problem with RotS is that it was a rather puerile approach to "darker and edgier for the 90s" rather than anything approaching a more mature tone.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Tevious
Clone Trooper
(id: The Vampire Slayer)
posted 02-27-17 04:16 PM EDT (US)     4 / 17       
I see you did make this thread after all.
Having been a bit older when these films came out, I did not like Jar Jar, nor did I care for the flashy lightsaber duels/battles. I'll post some of quotes from the other thread:
I think all the prequel movies are bad "Star Wars" films. AotC is flat out a bad movie, though. TPM is the only one I can even watch, even though it has it's share of flaws.
Better than Revenge of the Sith?

...Actually, in hindsight... I can see that. TPM actually has some kind of attempt at adventure instead of being a dour and depressing film with a horrible romance. Well, unless you count Jar Jar. Anyway, just wanted clarification.
Right, it's kind of fun to watch and there's Liam Neeson, too. I can't even watch RotS or AotC because it just ruins the OT for me. I put a huge importance on consistency when it comes to sagas. So while even RotS could be argued as a better film, it is also filled with bad writing, dumb cgi, and plot-holes that just doesn't line up with what we know from the OT. TPM has Jar Jar, but at least it doesn't really ruin any OT characters like Yoda, the Emperor, R2-D2, or Boba Fett, which both of the other two prequels do. You could argue Anakin and C-3P0, but all three movies had bad acting with Anakin and he's also kind of a different character anyway (than Vader in the OT). C-3P0 was more of a cameo in TPM, but then I guess he's kind of ruined by being Anakin's creation.

TPM is so far placed from the OT that I think that it is fair to say that it stands on it's own and it's kind of it's own thing. In my head, I can pretend that AotC and RotS are non-canon and TPM is just this separate thing, like the Ewok movies.
And to further comment on these films:

I can say that I never liked AotC. I only ever saw it in the theater once and then maybe bits and pieces of it since. There's a thread somewhere here on this site with opinions on the movie when it came out and I was in the minority of not liking it. I was not a fan of CGI being overused because it looks fake/cartoonish (and I still think so). The writing was terrible too. I remember rolling my eyes when Dooku tried to bring Obi-Wan over to the dark side. RotS, while better and had some good moments, was mostly more of the same.

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Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 02-27-17 05:50 PM EDT (US)     5 / 17       
I share your loathing of excessive CGI; it's among my encyclopedia-length list of problems with Jackson's The Hobbit. I have a soft spot for Dooku, however, simply because I adore Sir Christopher Lee, even in a role where his general attitude seems to be "Jonathan, twenty-five years in the Royal Shakespeare Company for this!"*

*According to Jonathan Frakes, that's a direct quote from Patrick Stewart. Patrick Stewart acknowledged it was true.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 02-28-17 12:33 PM EDT (US)     6 / 17       
Wow. I actually thought Tarkin looked decent... until I saw that side-by-side. Now he looks like something out of a Civ game.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 02-28-17 01:37 PM EDT (US)     7 / 17       
That's not the Rogue One Tarkin; that picture's been around for a while.

Here he is in the film.

I think it looks a lot better in the second image to the left. The needlessly dramatic lighting and closeups on him did a lot to break the illusion.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
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[This message has been edited by Gen_Rhys_Dallows (edited 02-28-2017 @ 01:42 PM).]

Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 02-28-17 01:57 PM EDT (US)     8 / 17       
Oh, wow. You're quite right. What's the image TVS posted? Beta test? Prosthetic?

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Gen_Rhys_Dallows
Jedi Knight
posted 02-28-17 02:04 PM EDT (US)     9 / 17       
I think that's just something a fan made; it's been around for a few years.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
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Tevious
Clone Trooper
(id: The Vampire Slayer)
posted 02-28-17 02:09 PM EDT (US)     10 / 17       
I just posted the first comparison I found on google image, didn't realize that wasn't from the actual film.

The animation was the biggest problem I noticed. Tarkin seemed very twitchy to me. They also should have only CGI-ed the facial features of the actor, then used real hair/wig, and kept the actor's real eyes (or gave him matching contacts).

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[This message has been edited by Tevious (edited 02-28-2017 @ 02:10 PM).]

Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 02-28-17 02:32 PM EDT (US)     11 / 17       
The animation was the biggest problem I noticed.
Animation is always the biggest problem with CGI IMO, and animations taken from motion capture tend to be worse than hand-crafted animations by people who know what they're doing (but not worse than animations by people who don't know what they're doing). And of course animations are limited by the complexity of the model: good luck animating 250+ muscles in the face alone and then using physics to control the way it interacts with skin in order to get realistic facial expressions, for example. IMO, there are three situations where CGI can be used effectively:
1) In the background, where it won't face serious scrutiny.
2) For non-human (or non-humanoid) creatures, where there is no risk of uncanny valley effect. However, where possible models or puppets are still preferable here unless the physical model cannot be made without looking more unrealistic than the CGI model.
3) For complete stylization where realism is not the end goal (in which case 2D would, in most cases, be preferable). As an aside, I'm rather disappointed with the modern obsession with realism. IMO realism became an outdated mode of expression with the invention of the camera, and expressionism and stylization should be preferred in art. But that's a matter of taste. Note the lower case descriptors: I'm not talking about Realism or Expressionism.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Maegereg
Clone Trooper
posted 02-28-17 11:05 PM EDT (US)     12 / 17       
I wasn't bothered by the CGI characters in Rogue One. They were fine. Maybe not completely realistic, but I didn't really notice the difference at the time. I was able to tell that Leia was CGI, but only because that was the only logical possibility.

I enjoyed Phantom Menace first run, and thought RoTS was quite good. I don't recall thinking AoTC was all that great, though I don't think I loathed it to the extent that I do now. And I agree that TPM is actually not a bad movie. It's just very much not what we expect from Star Wars.

Maegereg
,,,,,,,,,,Crusader for Commas,,,,,,,,,,
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Free Kenan
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 02-28-17 11:23 PM EDT (US)     13 / 17       
I still haven't actually seen Rogue One to judge it...

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 03-04-17 09:19 PM EDT (US)     14 / 17       
Well, in three weeks you can get it on DVD.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 03-04-17 09:41 PM EDT (US)     15 / 17       
Seven: Redbox doesn't get it until a month after release.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
Kousoku Senkan Moffgou
Moff
(id: Moff Yittreas)
posted 03-06-17 10:58 AM EDT (US)     16 / 17       
But you can get the physical copy sooner.

New RPG Coming Soon | Purveyor of the Poi | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
"Moff's anime diatribes/photos are infinitely less annoying than legion's communism, so I don't complain." - Azzie, proving that cute girls driving tanks >> Left-wing ideology
Emissary of the Prophets
Clone Trooper
(id: Admiral Zaarin)
posted 03-06-17 11:06 AM EDT (US)     17 / 17       
Sure, but the chances that I'll actually care about owning it are pretty slim. I'd rather spend that money on Arrival.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

"Most forums derails into talking about memes. Here we derail into in-depth discussions about art. I like ours better."--jssf1992
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